Civil War II: Fascism v. Communism

POD: 1900: Theodore Roosevelt is killed in action in Cuba.

1901: William McKinley is assassinated and his Roosevelt's successor as VP becomes President. He is weak-willed keeps out of big business' way. He is, in other words, Teddy Roosevelt's polar opposite.

1902-1920: The American economy becomes increasingly laissez-faire, the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer.

1918-1925: Communism gains popularity with immigrant workers in the Northeast and oppressed balances in the Deep South.

1925: The Union of American Patriots forms to combat communist sentiment. They are a pro-fascist group who espouse the view that the ‘American spirit’ has been ‘polluted’ by immigrants, Jews, and big business. Father Charles Coughlin endorses them on his radio show.

1926-1929: Huey Long and George Van Horn Moseley both join the UAP, which wins gubernatorial nominations in Georgia and Alabama.

1929: The stock market crash ignites the powder keg of resentment toward unchecked capitalism. After Black Thursday, there are riots in the streets and both the communists and the UAP gain popular support.

1930: Two rallies, fascist and communist, march up to the White House to demand that big business be reined in. A fight erupts between the two groups after a racist UAP marcher punches a black communist marcher.
The UAP's extreme elements tell their fellow fascists over the radio to take up arms against the communists.

1931: Battles ensue between the fascists and communists in Virginia, Maryland, Nevada, and Wisconsin. The U.S. Army declares a state of emergency and tries to quell the fighting, but in vain. The army is pathetically small (it was 180,000-strong in '38) and the militias on both sides outnumber the soldiers sent to stop them.
The Civil War II begins in earnest.
 
POD: 1900: Theodore Roosevelt is killed in action in Cuba.

1901: William McKinley is assassinated and his Roosevelt's successor as VP becomes President. He is weak-willed keeps out of big business' way. He is, in other words, Teddy Roosevelt's polar opposite.

1902-1920: The American economy becomes increasingly laissez-faire, the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer.

1918-1925: Communism gains popularity with immigrant workers in the Northeast and oppressed balances in the Deep South.

1925: The Union of American Patriots forms to combat communist sentiment. They are a pro-fascist group who espouse the view that the ‘American spirit’ has been ‘polluted’ by immigrants, Jews, and big business. Father Charles Coughlin endorses them on his radio show.

1926-1929: Huey Long and George Van Horn Moseley both join the UAP, which wins gubernatorial nominations in Georgia and Alabama.

1929: The stock market crash ignites the powder keg of resentment toward unchecked capitalism. After Black Thursday, there are riots in the streets and both the communists and the UAP gain popular support.

1930: Two rallies, fascist and communist, march up to the White House to demand that big business be reined in. A fight erupts between the two groups after a racist UAP marcher punches a black communist marcher.
The UAP's extreme elements tell their fellow fascists over the radio to take up arms against the communists.

1931: Battles ensue between the fascists and communists in Virginia, Maryland, Nevada, and Wisconsin. The U.S. Army declares a state of emergency and tries to quell the fighting, but in vain. The army is pathetically small (it was 180,000-strong in '38) and the militias on both sides outnumber the soldiers sent to stop them.
The Civil War II begins in earnest.

My complaints

1. Huey Long hated fascism and communism and preyed on the fears of those who feared both.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Huey_Long said:
Don't liken me to that [SOB]. Anybody that lets his public policies be mixed up with religious prejudice is a plain [GD] fool."
-Huey Long on Adolph Hitler and facism.(Williams p. 761P)

I don't know much about Hitler. Except that last thing, about the Jews. There has never been a country that put its heel down on the Jews that ever lived afterwards."
Huey Long (Williams p. 761)

and to show "racism"

Treat them just the same as anybody else, give them an opportunity to make a living, and to get an education."
Huey Long on his Negro policy as President (Williams p. 704)

Now, just a word about the poor Negroes … They're here. They've got to be cared for … The poor Negroes have got to live, too."
Huey Long as Governor (Williams p. 704)

Education and training for all children to be equal in opportunity in all schools, colleges, universities, and other institutions of training in the professions and vocations in life; to be regulated on the capacity of children to learn, and not on the ability of parents to pay the costs. Training for life's work to be as much universal and thorough for all walks of life as has been the training in the arts of killing.
Number 7 in the sum and substance of the Share our Wealth program (1935); quoted in Hugh Davis Graham, Huey Long (1970), p. 74.

2. neither fascism nor communism are or would be strong enough to do this, there are several large political figures you are disregarding like MacArthur, J Edgar Hoover, and many more


not saying this is impossible, you just need to do much more research
 
I take your point about about Huey Long. Maybe he goes into exile around '31 and travels to Europe to try and convince Red Cross and International Brigade groups to help the suffering civilians in America.
Frankly, since Huey Long is the kind of person I'd probably sympathize with, I might make him into a POV character if this turns into a narrative.

And this might just be my opinion, but the direction that America was heading in when Teddy Roosevelt became president was a dangerous path. If that level of government passivity and unchecked capitalism was allowed to reach ’critical mass’, it would have turned the working man against big business.
Some people may disagree on this point, and I'm aware how insanely forgiving the American public is of capitalism and the free market, but that's just how I see it.

Finally, the American fascists could always be some sort of outgrowth of the KKK. Imagine if KKK membership didn't plummet during the late 20s; that would give you a ready-made army of millions.
 
I fixed it


[POD: 1900: Theodore Roosevelt is killed in action in Cuba.

1901: William McKinley is assassinated and his Roosevelt's successor as VP becomes President. He is weak-willed keeps out of big business' way. He is, in other words, Teddy Roosevelt's polar opposite.

1902-1920: The American economy becomes increasingly laissez-faire, the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer.

1918-1925: Communism gains some popularity with immigrant workers in the Northeast and oppressed balances in the Deep South.

1925: The Union of American Patriots forms to combat communist sentiment. They are a pro-fascist group who espouse the view that the ‘American spirit’ has been ‘polluted’ by immigrants, Jews, and big business. Father Charles Coughlin endorses them on his radio show. UAP has a small but religiously devoted base.

1926-1929: George Van Horn Moseley joins the UAP, which wins gubernatorial nominations in Georgia and Alabama.

1929: The stock market crash ignites the powder keg of resentment toward unchecked capitalism. After Black Thursday, there are riots in the streets and both the communists and the UAP gain a little popular support as most rightists join the National Union Party led by (not officially retired) General Douglas MacArthur and the leftists under Huey Long, who successfully challenges the Democratic Party's leadership/

1930: Two rallies, fascist and communist, march up to the White House to demand that big business be reined in. A fight erupts between the two groups after a racist UAP marcher punches a black communist marcher.
The UAP's extreme elements tell their fellow fascists over the radio to take up arms against the communists. The US Army, under Douglas MacArthur crushes the riots but they spread. Vice President Andrew Mellon is killed.

1931: Battles ensue between fascists and communists in Virginia, Maryland, Nevada, and Wisconsin. It seems as they may destroy the country in fighting, until General Douglas MacArthur, FBI Directer J Edgar Hoover, Senator Robert LaFollete and Governor Huey Long strike a unlikely alliance to preserve the country, while promising each other a important role in the government. The fascists and communists are crushed by the army and the paramilitaries loyal to each of the men and the short lived "Civil War" is at an end.

1932: President Calvin Coolidge is basically a puppet by this time. Blasts reprodently by communist dissidents kill Long and LaFollete at a rally in Chicago. Hoover and Coolidge are also killed by a fascist fanatics. Secretary Of State Douglas MacArthur assumes control and cracks down on the radicals and declares a end to the revolts that had plagued the nation.
 
So, you think it'd be a short civil war?

Is there any way a second civil war could be a little longer?

there are way too many vested interests at stake to have one lasting longer than 2 years absolute tops

Ephraim ben Rapheal's one most famous is very ASB with the sad warping of Huey Long and the sudden communist burst of support
 
Thanks for the help, Gog3451.

This gives me an idea. After restoring order, would MacArthur give power back to the electorate or make himself a dictator. I know he had a big ego (so does Australia), but would he go that far?

Also, if MacArthur did become a dictator, might he start WW2 by invading Canada or Mexico?
 
Thanks for the help, Gog3451.

This gives me an idea. After restoring order, would MacArthur give power back to the electorate or make himself a dictator. I know he had a big ego (so does Australia), but would he go that far?

Also, if MacArthur did become a dictator, might he start WW2 by invading Canada or Mexico?
possibly but unlikely, hed just be authoritarian democracy

He wouldntn be fascist, and liekly WWII has the same foes, things were to set in stone by then

it might end later due to mismanagement though
 
What the heck an 'authoritarian democracy'?

Do people vote, but not have as much free speech?

one where people can vote and have speech, but those votes are often (but not all) rigged or changed and the speech is often compounded by men in black coming to you at night (though not always) its a weird half way that has existed sometimes but never lasted
 
I think all these threads about a fascist versus communist civil war in America during the Depression that somehow involve George Van Horn Moseley reflect anxieties in the current polarized American political landscape, since the Great Recession, Obama, Occupy, the Tea Party, Trump, etc. reflect the Depression, FDR, communism, fascism etc.
 
America was never a strong breeding ground for fascists. In order for that to happen, the conservatives would have to be seriously discredited. Otherwise, it would be a fight between communists and everyone else.

Fascism is a rare occurence that only came to power in nations like Italy and Germany because the public felt that the traditional right was discredited and democracy had also failed them.

That sort of scenario just can't arise in the United States without it first going through other dictatorships and fracturing.

So, it would be a fight between KKK-esque groups and communists.
 
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