It would help if we learn how the South leaves this time. I would think that by 1860 the South would have an idea that war is coming regardless of any ATL even remotely close to ours, and they might start arming accordingly. I do not think the war will change all that much save that the body count will rise and this will force a conclusion in 2-3 years, likely with some sort of semi-negotiated peace.
Civil war breaks out 1868
- Thread starter Johnrankins
- Start date
Why would there be a semi-negotiated peace? There wasn't in TTL and the North is cosiderably stronger in this one.
Interest of increasing cotton production had actually been a priority before this, at least for Britain.
Between 1850 and the mid-point of the ACW Great Britain had witnessed an increase in cotton purchases from Egypt and India from 16% of the total to 24%. Also it had become a habit to stockpile reserves of southern cotton, just in case.
Nevada probably isn't in the Union as it took a special exemption and a perceived need of three more electoral votes to get Nevada in by 1864 with less than half the required population. On the other hand, Colorado might take Nevada's place.
Missouri might well end slavery due to the burgeoning immigrant population in and around St Louis. Maryland's decision to do so during the ACW was a shock even to abolitionists and probably convinced the Deep South that they might never have been secure if they had not tried to secede.
Nevada probably isn't in the Union as it took a special exemption and a perceived need of three more electoral votes to get Nevada in by 1864 with less than half the required population. On the other hand, Colorado might take Nevada's place.
Missouri might well end slavery due to the burgeoning immigrant population in and around St Louis. Maryland's decision to do so during the ACW was a shock even to abolitionists and probably convinced the Deep South that they might never have been secure if they had not tried to secede.
1. Much higher body count with repeating firearms, imagine the South or both sides using Henry Rifles or Winchester '66 as their *standard issue!*
2. Slavery is not the primary issue until the middle of the war, it is a byproduct of the issue of state's rights
3. South will have more industry and railways, this might facilitate trade
4. Southerners have more time to prepare
5. Wild card: Grant may well drink himself to death before the war
1. Possibly, but not that likely as the North is far more likely then the South to have repeating rifles.
2. Doesn't matter slavery will come in to it sooner or later
3. The vast majority of new industry and railroads will be built in the North along with the vast majority of immigrants.
4. Prepare for what? There is no reason for them to be more prepared then OTL.
5. Lee is likely retired or at least too old to be a good general. In OTL Lee was increasingly absent from the front line by 1865 due to his age. Add another 3 years on top of that.
1. Well, who is more likely to be armed with repeating rifles, the industrialized north, or the agrarian south? And this is probably actually a boon for the north, because they can afford much higher casualty rates than the south.
2. I don't even want to touch this; whatever I say will set off a chain reaction. But basically, someone will bring up the slavery issue at some point. It doesn't matter why the war is fought, but it will come to the fore.
3. 1 word: Why? Does the rich southern aristocrats having their way for 8 more years mean more industry? No. All the immigration, railroad construction, and industrialization is in the north. That is the main reason TL-191 could never happen.
4. The thoughts of an average southernor: Oh, this is just what I wanted!! 8 Years to prepare for the inevitable to happen, and for me to leave a union which has been practically run by my region since day 1, and which I feel closly connected enough to to consider myself American for most of the conflict.
5. Grant is over-rated. His greatest virtue was his willingness to keep fighting past massive casualties. There were other generals. And Lee will be gone, and with him many of his commanders. And to elaborate on Johnrankin's point, Lee only got command in 1862, bcause his commander was injured. So Lee, who is far more valuable to the CSA than Grant is to the USA, is out of the picture.
If Grant is out of the picture, what are the chances that Sherman will be the top commander eventually? Assuming that the other generals show their general level of incompetence that they did in OTL, it seems reasonable...
If Grant is out of the picture which is a big if. Grant didn't drink aound his wife and there is no reason for him not to be around his wife until 1868 without a war.
To add to that almost all the arms producing companies were in the North and economically speaking the south would have a weaker economy becuase of their obesession with a failed economic system the South had almost no modern industry and NO major arsenals or arms factories. Plus most Southern troops would be armed with what they brought from home as in OTL and I dont think the average poor Sothern farmer can afford a Remington rolling block rifle.
Alot more Jews and Catholics in the North as well as the slaves far outnumbering white Southerners. No Nevada, no West Virginia, a progressivist North with maybe stronger abolitionist feelings the border states that had slavery would abolish it as it proved to be an economic faliure as well as the imflux of immigrant labor would also be cheaper to hire than owning slaves. Also Europe is occupied with their own problems so they would give even less of a hoot about the South than OTL.
I was thinking more about the fates of Rupert's Land and/or Alaska...
And possibly pick up BC thereafter, and, if really lucky, Canada too
Thus the vast number of future free states causes the South to break away?
And promply be crushed by a Union even more outrageously overpowered compared to the south.
And promply be crushed by a Union even more outrageously overpowered compared to the south.
Exactly, we may even get a more expantionist US out of this whole affair that would openly compete with European powers on equal terms.