Cinco de Mayo

[PresidentZinn]

Well, we know the LIBERALS get a second term - we're assuming that it's Hughes. But yea, point taken. And yes, I comcpletely agree with you - I am FAR more interesting in the Confederate election of 1915 and the poor schmuck which is fosted upon the people. For his sake, I hope he survives his term. But I'm only giving it 50/50 odds at best at this point.

I was hoping for a Confederate civil war.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Denouement - 5.5.15​

News traveled slower in 1915 than today, but it did not take long for the gravity of what had happened at Hilton Head to wash up on Dixie shores along with hundreds of drowned bodies, just as the revelation of the collapse of the Inner Line and Yankee soldiers pushing their way into Nashville itself arrived before long. For those who really understood sea power theory, there was a certain stunned resignation to the decisive, overwhelming blow the Yankee navy had doled out upon the Confederate troops, but the mood of the general public was more apoplectic terror than anything else. The twin defeats, which overshadowed the ceasefire agreed to by Chile upon the same day half a world away, were a gut punch to Confederate pride and swagger. The first months of 1915 had after all seen successful counteroffensives on the Occoquan and on the Cumberland to limit American advances, and defeats in West Tennessee had pinned the enemy in Memphis with their backs to the river, while at sea the Wolfpack strategy had seemed to turn the tide in Confederate favor. All that was now gone, the cautious optimism of the first four months of the year drowned along with ten thousand Confederate lives off the coast of South Carolina.

The twin defeats occurred twenty months almost to the day after the war had started in September 1913; during the War of Secession, still considered by Confederate leadership the blueprint of their campaign, at the twenty month mark they had scored their victory-securing triumphs in Kentucky and Pennsylvania and had just repelled Union forces at Fredericksburg in a bloody, violent debacle for their foe. The realization sank in that this was not the same spineless Yankee of fifty years prior but rather a vengeful one, and many officers before long expressed regret at the savagery of Plan HHH and the surprise attack on Baltimore, now fearing what the response would be and wondering if Nashville was simply a remarkably grim aperatif before the main course arrived in southern Virginia, northern Alabama and central Georgia.

There was something curiously providential and mystical about all three of those irreversible setbacks occurring on the same day, May the 5th, and the date would carry some small degree of superstition for the war generation and many of their children. It was as if God had chosen that day to be the day of Confederate reckoning for some indeterminable sin, and some began to openly wonder for the first time out loud whether it was the institution of slavery that had marked Dixie as cursed, especially as the hell on earth that the Yankee would visit upon them over the rest of the war became more and more clear. It was strange to think, though nobody could have realized, how May the 5th was providential to them in another way, for without a victory on far-off Mexican soil on that same day by the French soldiers of the long-dead Napoleon III, fifty-three years earlier, the Confederacy would never have been recognized or supported from the south.

In that half century since much had changed around the world, socially, technologically, and politically, but the immense amount of cultural pride in the Old South had remained the same, especially over its hierarchical, slave-fueled society. Nashville and Hilton Head were not the end of that, but they were certainly the beginning of the end, rather than the end of the beginning. They were the first unraveling, the first sentence of the denouement of a now-unmourned civilization gone with the wind. The sense across the white Confederacy in the Black May of 1915 were ones of ominous, looming fear for a reason - everybody could sense that the war's tide had shifted for good, and that the "high-water mark" of the Bloc Sud had long come and gone on the hills north of Nashville, the beaches of South Carolina and the mountains of Chile.

The war did not end on May 5th, 1915, unfortunately for the hundreds of thousands of souls still to perish - but the war, for all intents and purposes, was from there on out over but for the fighting.

FIN​

Great job buddy.

 

[DanMcCollum]

I was hoping for a Confederate civil war.

To have a Civil War, you've got to have people willing and able to fight, and I doubt that there are too many left at this point. What I think is more likely is low-level insurrgency - both against/by the freedmen as well as anti-government zealots of all stripes. At least until Huey is able to come to power, bring the country back to heel, restore some Confederate lands and honor. Though if we take the CSA as a Latin American Republic to heart, I suspect that there will be always be SOME rebel groups existing at the fringes of society and hinding out in the backwoods.

 

[KingSweden24]

Well, as you can all see (and I've been hinting at for a minute), that's a wrap on this installment of Cinco de Mayo. What started as a lazy way for me to avoid work/studying for the CFP exam and/or write one of the novel series I had written myself into a corner on during the doldrums of Covid after I initially had let this die during the doldrums of my divorce (I had a really great 2019-20, why do you ask lol) has, at this point, evolved into probably the writing project I'm most proud of, probably because it's the writing project people have actually read, enjoyed, and engaged with.

That's honestly the biggest reason this thing got to 498 pages and 1750 threadmarks - you, the readers, keeping me on my toes with constructive criticism, good questions, even better ideas, and most importantly encouraging feedback. I'm honored that you stuck with this beast all the way through to the end and I hope you've enjoyed reading it as much as I've enjoyed putting it together.

I'll be doing a sequel thread here soon, probably in the After 1900 thread since everything from here on out is post-1900, though if the mods don't feel the same way we'll be right back here in Pre-1900 soon. Again, thank you all so very much, and I'll see you soon for more Cinco de Mayo!

 

[PresidentZinn]

Amazon stuff @KingSweden24.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Denouement - 5.5.15​

News traveled slower in 1915 than today, but it did not take long for the gravity of what had happened at Hilton Head to wash up on Dixie shores along with hundreds of drowned bodies, just as the revelation of the collapse of the Inner Line and Yankee soldiers pushing their way into Nashville itself arrived before long. For those who really understood sea power theory, there was a certain stunned resignation to the decisive, overwhelming blow the Yankee navy had doled out upon the Confederate troops, but the mood of the general public was more apoplectic terror than anything else. The twin defeats, which overshadowed the ceasefire agreed to by Chile upon the same day half a world away, were a gut punch to Confederate pride and swagger. The first months of 1915 had after all seen successful counteroffensives on the Occoquan and on the Cumberland to limit American advances, and defeats in West Tennessee had pinned the enemy in Memphis with their backs to the river, while at sea the Wolfpack strategy had seemed to turn the tide in Confederate favor. All that was now gone, the cautious optimism of the first four months of the year drowned along with ten thousand Confederate lives off the coast of South Carolina.

The twin defeats occurred twenty months almost to the day after the war had started in September 1913; during the War of Secession, still considered by Confederate leadership the blueprint of their campaign, at the twenty month mark they had scored their victory-securing triumphs in Kentucky and Pennsylvania and had just repelled Union forces at Fredericksburg in a bloody, violent debacle for their foe. The realization sank in that this was not the same spineless Yankee of fifty years prior but rather a vengeful one, and many officers before long expressed regret at the savagery of Plan HHH and the surprise attack on Baltimore, now fearing what the response would be and wondering if Nashville was simply a remarkably grim aperatif before the main course arrived in southern Virginia, northern Alabama and central Georgia.

There was something curiously providential and mystical about all three of those irreversible setbacks occurring on the same day, May the 5th, and the date would carry some small degree of superstition for the war generation and many of their children. It was as if God had chosen that day to be the day of Confederate reckoning for some indeterminable sin, and some began to openly wonder for the first time out loud whether it was the institution of slavery that had marked Dixie as cursed, especially as the hell on earth that the Yankee would visit upon them over the rest of the war became more and more clear. It was strange to think, though nobody could have realized, how May the 5th was providential to them in another way, for without a victory on far-off Mexican soil on that same day by the French soldiers of the long-dead Napoleon III, fifty-three years earlier, the Confederacy would never have been recognized or supported from the south.

In that half century since much had changed around the world, socially, technologically, and politically, but the immense amount of cultural pride in the Old South had remained the same, especially over its hierarchical, slave-fueled society. Nashville and Hilton Head were not the end of that, but they were certainly the beginning of the end, rather than the end of the beginning. They were the first unraveling, the first sentence of the denouement of a now-unmourned civilization gone with the wind. The sense across the white Confederacy in the Black May of 1915 were ones of ominous, looming fear for a reason - everybody could sense that the war's tide had shifted for good, and that the "high-water mark" of the Bloc Sud had long come and gone on the hills north of Nashville, the beaches of South Carolina and the mountains of Chile.

The war did not end on May 5th, 1915, unfortunately for the hundreds of thousands of souls still to perish - but the war, for all intents and purposes, was from there on out over but for the fighting.

FIN​

Huzzah!!!!!! Great ending to the first chapter and I'm so happy to have been allowed along for the great. Great writing as always, and I await what comes next with baited breath!

 

[DanMcCollum]

I'll be doing a sequel thread here soon, probably in the After 1900 thread since everything from here on out is post-1900, though if the mods don't feel the same way we'll be right back here in Pre-1900 soon. Again, thank you all so very much, and I'll see you soon for more Cinco de Mayo!

I think the usual rule of thumb in these cases is that if the POD still occurred prior to 1900, the proper place is in the pre-1900 board. But I could be wrong about that.

 

[KingSweden24]

Sequel thread here though it'll be a little bit before there's any content. See you all over there!

 

[Devoid]

The realization sank in that this was not the same spineless Yankee of fifty years prior but rather a vengeful one

The Confederates fucked around. Now they find out.

May the 5th, and the date would carry some small degree of superstition for the war generation and many of their children. It was as if God had chosen that day to be the day of Confederate reckoning for some indeterminable sin, and some began to openly wonder for the first time out loud whether it was the institution of slavery that had marked Dixie as cursed

The Confederacy's third act breakdown shall be nuts, and I am here for it.

Well, as you can all see (and I've been hinting at for a minute), that's a wrap on this installment of Cinco de Mayo. What started as a lazy way for me to avoid work/studying for the CFP exam and/or write one of the novel series I had written myself into a corner on during the doldrums of Covid after I initially had let this die during the doldrums of my divorce (I had a really great 2019-20, why do you ask lol) has, at this point, evolved into probably the writing project I'm most proud of, probably because it's the writing project people have actually read, enjoyed, and engaged with.

That's honestly the biggest reason this thing got to 498 pages and 1750 threadmarks - you, the readers, keeping me on my toes with constructive criticism, good questions, even better ideas, and most importantly encouraging feedback. I'm honored that you stuck with this beast all the way through to the end and I hope you've enjoyed reading it as much as I've enjoyed putting it together.

I'll be doing a sequel thread here soon, probably in the After 1900 thread since everything from here on out is post-1900, though if the mods don't feel the same way we'll be right back here in Pre-1900 soon. Again, thank you all so very much, and I'll see you soon for more Cinco de Mayo!

A fantastic end to the first thread of my favorite timeline. If the sequel thread is half as good that'll be a fantastic victory.

 

[PresidentZinn]

To have a Civil War, you've got to have people willing and able to fight, and I doubt that there are too many left at this point. What I think is more likely is low-level insurrgency - both against/by the freedmen as well as anti-government zealots of all stripes. At least until Huey is able to come to power, bring the country back to heel, restore some Confederate lands and honor. Though if we take the CSA as a Latin American Republic to heart, I suspect that there will be always be SOME rebel groups existing at the fringes of society and hinding out in the backwoods.

Would have been nice to see a couple of southern states secede and rejoin the Union, in the ultimate admission of failure.

 

[KingSweden24]

I think the usual rule of thumb in these cases is that if the POD still occurred prior to 1900, the proper place is in the pre-1900 board. But I could be wrong about that.

I've heard it can go either way depending on the circumstances (though I'm basing this on a conversation from like a year ago with @TheRockofChickamauga so I may be misremembering) but if I gotta move it I gotta move it, whatevs

The Confederates fucked around. Now they find out.

The Confederacy's third act breakdown shall be nuts, and I am here for it.

A fantastic end to the first thread of my favorite timeline. If the sequel thread is half as good that'll be a fantastic victory.

Too kind! If I can get it half as good I'll be pleased, because I don't know how I'll top the 1905-15 run of this TL with anything else I put together

 

[Rattigan]

Great stuff. Looking forward to the sequel

 

[ComradeSimmington]

FIN​

BRAVO SIR! BRAVO!
Cant wait for the sequel thread, although i admit waiting for posts rather than binge reading them like i did here will have me on edge!

 

[theDICTATORguy]

One of the best TLs this site has ever seen. Looking forward to more great stuff in the sequel thread!

 

[naraht]

We know that Texas Seccession begins in late 1915 as well - so its POSSIBLE that they avoid any major battles; the Union Army shows up just in time to see the Confederate flag lowered, a hastily stitched Texas flag raised (or some brought out of the local historical society) and a local official arrives to greet the Army officers as a representative of the Second Texan Republic. This no doubt causes some headscratching, but when said official suggests that he's been asked by the new government to ask the Americans' help in driving the Confederates from the state ...

Also, since the GAW is meant to be, in some ways, a dark mirror of the Civil War - it would be appropriate if Florida gets away largely unscathed; possible seeing an indecisive naval landing or two, but that's about it.

Um. Texas had the Battle of Los Pasos (El Paso plus the Mexican side) for more than 6 months...

And as far as I know, the Texans had the RoT flag as the state flag. It is unclear whether iTTL Confederate troops would have carried State flags like OTL Civil War, or *not* like OTL WWI.

 

[HIM Dogson]

Sack of Atlanta

lord ive seen what you've done for other timelines

 

[naraht]

Would have been nice to see a couple of southern states secede and rejoin the Union, in the ultimate admission of failure.

Four Confederate States are pretty much the border of the Union and each has their own reasons, (and no non-contiguous state would do it)

Virginia has the National Capital, as long as the confederacy doesn't completely fall apart...
Kentucky, will be a relative mess post war, and the Union doesn't want it.
Arkansas. The Ozarks in the northern half reduce communication north, and as such I don't think its likely.
Texas. A tradition of independence to look back on, *and* with the Indian Territory in between, their border with the US has mostly been *far* away. (I think Atlanta is closer to Richmond than Austin is to the nearest point on the US border)

Additionally, for a decent chunk of the Confederacy, they've been a state of the Confederate States of America *longer* than they were a state of the United States of America (Arkansas, Texas and Florida)

 

[naraht]

Not sure it works in the Timeline (GAW vs CEW), but it would be really cursed for the Confederacy if treaty negotiations at the end of the US/CS part of the war (at which point the confederates would be desperate) were in a city where the negotiators were trapped or attacked due to the start of the CEW. (Vienna?)

(Though I do expect the US to go full "Hitler in 1940" and insist that the treaty be done in Havana.)

 

[DanMcCollum]

Um. Texas had the Battle of Los Pasos (El Paso plus the Mexican side) for more than 6 months...

And as far as I know, the Texans had the RoT flag as the state flag. It is unclear whether iTTL Confederate troops would have carried State flags like OTL Civil War, or *not* like OTL WWI.

Ah yes, good catch! I'd forgotten about the Battle of Los Pasos.

 

[Nalph Nado]

I mean, the existential crisis is already looming - meet, I believe, the 1920s and 1930s. But the nation already has 50 years of independence, and a Union that is unwilling to bring them back into the fold (smart on the Union's part). So I believe the answer is some combination if anti-Yankeeism (whatever the Union is doing is the opposite of what we do), white supremacy (sadly, the same bent they took in OTL) and potentially yeoman populism (the Yankees are run by the bankers and captains of industry. We're a true White Man's Republic, who kicked the planters to the curb and are now the Republic that was envisioned by Jeferson and the founders! Ave Long!) Once the Civil Right's movement picks up in, say, the 1970s, 80s and 90s, there will be another eistetial crisis. But it will be helped by the fact that at that point the Confederacy has been independent so long it has its own internal inertia and isn't going to vanish from the face of the earth. Even if they have their own Nelson Mandella figure!

I would say the direction for the Civil Rights Movement ITTL would be either the Northern Irish Troubles; the demographics don’t favor Blacks. Perhaps Jesse Jackson as a Gerry Adams analogue would be more proper than a Mandela-like figure.

And congrats on finishing the first part of my favorite universe on this website!