@KingSweden24 Do you know colonel François De La Rocque ? IOTL he was a WWI veteran and french nationalist politician in the 30s, leading the Parti Social Français (French Social Party). He and his party had ideas like a stronger presidential regime to end the instability of the parliementary Third Republic, and despite being rather conservative, they wanted to give women voting rights and opposed antisemitism (De La Rocque make sure to exclude militants who didn't renounced antisemitism from the party).

I think he would just fit perfectly in Cinco de Mayo France !
From what I recall Colonel De la Roque and his PSF were the only major far right party to gain any traction (particularly after the rise of the Popular Front and the dissolution of the parliamentary leagues even if they were excluded from the Government). I think one could accurately suggest that he was closer to the Gaullist model of a Presidential Republic. Also from what I understood there was a persistent fear especially among the Radicals but also from the Left more generally that women being influenced by the Church/more conservative meant that giving them the vote would be a boon to conservative and monarchist groups.
 
Total Mobilization: The Economics of the Great American War
"...infamous episodes of the war. It was no accident that the Grain Board was placed under the remit of the War Department; Secretary Goff had proven himself one of the more dept "bean-counters" as Secretary Root huffily referred to his Cabinet rival [1] and his quick turnaround on a number of logistical snarls in ordnance and supply had endeared him to military brass and impressed the President, and not just in comparison to his maligned predecessor Herrick. As such, the daunting task of keeping the swelling armies being pushed into Maryland, Kentucky, and western Texas - and, soon, an Expeditionary Force earmarked for operations abroad - not only supplied but more importantly fed fell on Goff's exhausted bureaucrats, who under the guise of the War Procurement Order established the Grain Board until a more sophisticated Congressional solution could be found. [2]

The Grain Board immediately began buying up huge amounts of grain, bidding the price up, leading to a ban on grain exports passed both by executive order and soon Congressional action. While a huge boon for once-struggling farmers and thus popular with Farm Belt Democrats who otherwise took a dim view of the Hughes administration, this still meant that there was a surge in grain prices within the country and meant that there was now internal competition for the market, meaning that either civilian grain supplies would be rationed or something drastic would have to be done, and the administration had a straightforward one - a federal ban on the transshipment of alcohol across state lines for the duration of the war and state bans on the distillation of liquor or brewing of beer that may contain ingredients needed to feed the armies.

Hughes was a teetotaler personally but skeptical of outright prohibition, and Goff regarded the temperance activists with a great deal of contempt, but prohibition as a movement had gained a tremendous amount of steam in the previous quarter-century and found purchase among many Protestants who saw it as the moral question of the times and who were single-issue voters on going beyond local options into wholesale statewide or even federal bans. While its political implications could be complicated, especially out West - Washington was one of three states that banned it totally and it was the core fault line between the two largest factions of the Oregon Democrats - it was primarily a Liberal phenomenon. As a result, a number of political appointees at the War Department were outright prohibitionists who eagerly used their newfound power. The war had of course ended all imports of popular distilled products from the Confederacy and would severely hamper the trade of Irish whiskies, but domestic brews drew even more grain and was seen as the real scourge by the moralizing temperance crusaders who had burrowed their way into the Grain Board and that set up a crisis with the beating heart of American beer - Milwaukee.

Beer and Milwaukee are, to many Americans, are virtually synonymous. While cities like Newark and Cincinnati enjoyed robust brewing cultures it was the “German Athens” that was the epicenter of beer brewing in the United States, and home to a strong culture of beer halls and gardens rather than saloons or taverns. Milwaukee’s major breweries Schlitz, Blatz and especially Pabst produced so much of their product that they had for years been one of the largest traders in hops and grains futures on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, the world’s largest commodities market, larger even than any of London’s, and locked in their order sizes and prices months in advance. This meant that they were due shipments at prices lower than the going rate, and upon the formation of the Grain Board several nationwide breweries, but especially Pabst, had rushed in to lock up as many futures as possible at pre-spike prices, leaving the government short of their grain quotas. In other words, overpaying for too little of what they needed.

The ostensible reason the Grain Board attempted to seize by force the grain shipments to Milwaukee was that they needed to get their allotted grains for feeding armies, by hook or by crook, but the image of War Department agents and Wisconsin National Guardsmen marching on the massive Pabst brewery, combined with the ban on interstate alcohol sales and much-discussed proposals to ban alcohol production during the war gave a very different impression. The workforce at Milwaukee’s breweries was also heavily unionized, generally German-speaking and voted for the city’s socialist machine headed by Mayor Emil Seidel and Congressman Victor Berger, giving it a sharply political aspect, too.

The Milwaukee Beer Garden Riots were thus one of the worst civil disturbances of the war. Five blocks of Milwaukee’s brewing district burned down and six men died. The Grain Board retreated after the outcry, and Congress - pushed in part by Berger - stepped in with a stopgap law to better regulate the grain market during the war, largely defusing the dispute, and Pabst voluntarily slashed their production by 70%.

Politically, the Beer Garden Riots were background noise in the broader war but were not soon forgotten by German Wisconsinites. Once thought to be running out of steam, Milwaukee’s Socialists instead retrenched their power; Socialists would control city hall in “Red Milwaukee” without interruption until the early 1980s and Berger’s Congressional seat would stay staunchly Socialist with only a few interregnums as well. A sense of persecution similar to the Samoan War attached itself in many German communities, particularly the post-riot revival of crude stereotypes about beer garden culture, and the German volunteers in the Great American War helped inspire a German-American cultural renaissance across the Upper Midwest…”

- Total Mobilization: The Economics of the Great American War

[1] Keep an eye on Root's position in the Cabinet
[2] "An army marches on its stomach" - Napoleon Bonaparte
 
Politically, the Beer Garden Riots were background noise in the broader war but were not soon forgotten by German Wisconsinites. Once thought to be running out of steam, Milwaukee’s Socialists instead retrenched their power; Socialists would control city hall in “Red Milwaukee” without interruption until the early 1980s and Berger’s Congressional seat would stay staunchly Socialist with only a few interregnums as well. A sense of persecution similar to the Samoan War attached itself in many German communities, particularly the post-riot revival of crude stereotypes about beer garden culture, and the German volunteers in the Great American War helped inspire a German-American cultural renaissance across the Upper Midwest…”
Good, even when they lose, the socialist party wins.
 
I really hope we get an update with all the wikia pages of the offensives during the early stages of the war.
Can try to throw something together, though it might not be every battle. Some engagements are easier expressed via Wiki after all
@KingSweden24 Do you know colonel François De La Rocque ? IOTL he was a WWI veteran and french nationalist politician in the 30s, leading the Parti Social Français (French Social Party). He and his party had ideas like a stronger presidential regime to end the instability of the parliementary Third Republic, and despite being rather conservative, they wanted to give women voting rights and opposed antisemitism (De La Rocque make sure to exclude militants who didn't renounced antisemitism from the party).

I think he would just fit perfectly in Cinco de Mayo France !
The name is familiar! Certainly somebody who could be useful in what’s going to be a pretty turbulent 30s for France
I had the same idea for a potential timeline lol(i even made a thread to get more opinions on the Ghadar, my idea though was ireland+india+egypt in this order), but im glad someone is actually doing it
I went back and forth on how workable Ghadar is as a butterfly ITTL sans WW1 as a backdrop but with the Lord Harding Assassination going through it sorta works, I think, and it’s a very underused POD. Would be curious to see the results of the thread you made if you still have a link, lot of sharp Indophiles on this site who know their stuff

From what I recall Colonel De la Roque and his PSF were the only major far right party to gain any traction (particularly after the rise of the Popular Front and the dissolution of the parliamentary leagues even if they were excluded from the Government). I think one could accurately suggest that he was closer to the Gaullist model of a Presidential Republic. Also from what I understood there was a persistent fear especially among the Radicals but also from the Left more generally that women being influenced by the Church/more conservative meant that giving them the vote would be a boon to conservative and monarchist groups.
Yeah, women leaning left compared to men is a fairly modern phenomenon within the last thirty-odd years or so
As long as Berger and his successors eventually caucus with the Democrats I'm a happy camper.
Some of the Western Socialists might be prickly since elections in, say, Idaho are basically just D v S affairs but Berger gets how confidence and supply works (inasmuch as it could work within the US system)
 
Senator Dev setting up a Hispanic-Hibernian machine in NJ while training a certain OTL NJ Senator also has a cursed appeal of its own.
There’s so many cursed OTL Nj Senators to choose from but I’ll wager we’re talking about Harrison “Pete” Williams here lol?
 
Some of the Western Socialists might be prickly since elections in, say, Idaho are basically just D v S affairs but Berger gets how confidence and supply works (inasmuch as it could work within the US system)
It can't be a CdM election update without a third party existing only to hurt Democrats.

On a more seriously note, the more I read about Berger the more interesting he is. Presumably he won't get screwed out of his seat ITTL like he did OTL so he might stick around for a bit.
 
It can't be a CdM election update without a third party existing only to hurt Democrats.

On a more seriously note, the more I read about Berger the more interesting he is. Presumably he won't get screwed out of his seat ITTL like he did OTL so he might stick around for a bit.

He probably would have stuck around for a lot longer in OTL had he not been run over.

He really is a pretty fascinating guy - he could be a bit imperious and this strained his relationship with Debs greatly (Berger saw himself as Debs' mentor, and he was, but he never understood Debs' need for intellectual I dependence either and this caused a lot of tension over the years). And he likewise pissed off the left wing of the Socialist movement, though I'm liable to see that as a mark in his favor :)

I actually considered focusing on him and the Milwaukee Sewer Socialists for my PhD before I decided on my immigrant priests topic. Here's a lot of holes in the research and I don't bekieve he's gotten a solid biography in far too long.

On on a related note, a Congressional delegation lead by Berger is most certainly going to caucus with the Dems (after he secures concessions from them of course! Berger ain't dumb enough to give away the golden goose with nothing to show for it). He was an avowed Socialist, but also a consumate politician - and this was the fact that drove the left wing of the movement crazy. How DARE he okay the game and be effective! - and would have known how to leversfe the infouede and power his caucus had.
 
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On on a related note, a Congressional delegation lead by Berger is most certainly going to caucus with the Dems (after he secures concessions from them of course! Berger ain't dumb enough to give away the golden goose with nothing to show for it). He was an avowed Socialist, but also a consumate politician - and this was the fact that drove the left wing of the movement crazy. How DARE he okay the game and be effective! - and would have known how to leversfe the infouede and power his caucus had.
Well, Berger is certainly going to be the leading figure for American socialism for a long time, with his position secure and entrenched. Which does beg the question on how much of an influence he will have for aspiring leftists and other leftist ideologies in America, and perhaps abroad.
 
It can't be a CdM election update without a third party existing only to hurt Democrats.

On a more seriously note, the more I read about Berger the more interesting he is. Presumably he won't get screwed out of his seat ITTL like he did OTL so he might stick around for a bit.
He probably would have stuck around for a lot longer in OTL had he not been run over.

He really is a pretty fascinating guy - he could be a bit imperious and this strained his relationship with Debs greatly (Berger saw himself as Debs' mentor, and he was, but he never understood Debs' need for intellectual I dependence either and this caused a lot of tension over the years). And he likewise pissed off the left wing of the Socialist movement, though I'm liable to see that as a mark in his favor :)

I actually considered focusing on him and the Milwaukee Sewer Socialists for my PhD before I decided on my immigrant priests topic. Here's a lot of holes in the research and I don't bekieve he's gotten a solid biography in far too long.

On on a related note, a Congressional delegation lead by Berger is most certainly going to caucus with the Dems (after he secures concessions from them of course! Berger ain't dumb enough to give away the golden goose with nothing to show for it). He was an avowed Socialist, but also a consumate politician - and this was the fact that drove the left wing of the movement crazy. How DARE he okay the game and be effective! - and would have known how to leversfe the infouede and power his caucus had.
Well, Berger is certainly going to be the leading figure for American socialism for a long time, with his position secure and entrenched. Which does beg the question on how much of an influence he will have for aspiring leftists and other leftist ideologies in America, and perhaps abroad.
Berger and to a lesser extent Seidel being the central figures of American socialism is both IMO a big positive and should give an extent of where the ideology is headed (more municipal than national) ITTL
A bit more recent, as in a certain Cuban-American Senator who I fear mentioning due to being a bit too close to current politics.
Ah, yes. Hopefully we don’t see too much more of him, though one dreads what else either of the machines might produce to replace him haha
 
Ah, yes. Hopefully we don’t see too much more of him, though one dreads what else either of the machines might produce to replace him haha
My guess is that if suburbanization is weaker, then the machines are actually stronger than OTL, if that's even possible. NJ politics back in the day and even now are heavily determined by powerful county bosses, and if the various suburban home rule counties like Bergen and Morris are weaker, and cities like Newark and Jersey City are stronger, possible even expanding in territory instead of being constrained by pesky suburbs. Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia page on the subject:
Historian Kenneth T. Jackson and others theorized that Newark, with a poor center surrounded by middle-class outlying areas, only did well when it was able to annex middle-class suburbs. When municipal annexation broke down, urban problems were exacerbated as the middle-class ring became divorced from the poor center. In 1900, Newark's mayor had confidently speculated, "East Orange, Vailsburg, Harrison, Kearny, and Belleville would be desirable acquisitions. By an exercise of discretion we can enlarge the city from decade to decade without unnecessarily taxing the property within our limits, which has already paid the cost of public improvements." Only Vailsburg would ever be added.[27]

Although numerous problems predated World War II, Newark was more hamstrung by a number of trends in the post-WWII era. The Federal Housing Administration redlined virtually all of Newark, preferring to back up mortgages in the white suburbs. This made it impossible for people to get mortgages for purchase or loans for improvements. Manufacturers set up in lower wage environments outside the city and received larger tax deductions for building new factories in outlying areas than for rehabilitating old factories in the city. The federal tax structure essentially subsidized such inequities.
Basically, if a bit of redlining is butterflied here, we could see Newark expand outward, consuming almost half of Essex County in the process, and possibly even parts of Hudson. Jersey City might do something similar with Bayonne, Hoboken, Guttenberg, or even Union City, especially if Frank Hague sees value in adding the cities there to an Irish-based machine, or better yet, loses power to a more accommodating mayor who doesn't only cater to just Irish voters.
 
"...infamous episodes of the war. It was no accident that the Grain Board was placed under the remit of the War Department; Secretary Goff had proven himself one of the more dept "bean-counters" as Secretary Root huffily referred to his Cabinet rival [1] and his quick turnaround on a number of logistical snarls in ordnance and supply had endeared him to military brass and impressed the President, and not just in comparison to his maligned predecessor Herrick. As such, the daunting task of keeping the swelling armies being pushed into Maryland, Kentucky, and western Texas - and, soon, an Expeditionary Force earmarked for operations abroad - not only supplied but more importantly fed fell on Goff's exhausted bureaucrats, who under the guise of the War Procurement Order established the Grain Board until a more sophisticated Congressional solution could be found. [2]

The Grain Board immediately began buying up huge amounts of grain, bidding the price up, leading to a ban on grain exports passed both by executive order and soon Congressional action. While a huge boon for once-struggling farmers and thus popular with Farm Belt Democrats who otherwise took a dim view of the Hughes administration, this still meant that there was a surge in grain prices within the country and meant that there was now internal competition for the market, meaning that either civilian grain supplies would be rationed or something drastic would have to be done, and the administration had a straightforward one - a federal ban on the transshipment of alcohol across state lines for the duration of the war and state bans on the distillation of liquor or brewing of beer that may contain ingredients needed to feed the armies.

Hughes was a teetotaler personally but skeptical of outright prohibition, and Goff regarded the temperance activists with a great deal of contempt, but prohibition as a movement had gained a tremendous amount of steam in the previous quarter-century and found purchase among many Protestants who saw it as the moral question of the times and who were single-issue voters on going beyond local options into wholesale statewide or even federal bans. While its political implications could be complicated, especially out West - Washington was one of three states that banned it totally and it was the core fault line between the two largest factions of the Oregon Democrats - it was primarily a Liberal phenomenon. As a result, a number of political appointees at the War Department were outright prohibitionists who eagerly used their newfound power. The war had of course ended all imports of popular distilled products from the Confederacy and would severely hamper the trade of Irish whiskies, but domestic brews drew even more grain and was seen as the real scourge by the moralizing temperance crusaders who had burrowed their way into the Grain Board and that set up a crisis with the beating heart of American beer - Milwaukee.

Beer and Milwaukee are, to many Americans, are virtually synonymous. While cities like Newark and Cincinnati enjoyed robust brewing cultures it was the “German Athens” that was the epicenter of beer brewing in the United States, and home to a strong culture of beer halls and gardens rather than saloons or taverns. Milwaukee’s major breweries Schlitz, Blatz and especially Pabst produced so much of their product that they had for years been one of the largest traders in hops and grains futures on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, the world’s largest commodities market, larger even than any of London’s, and locked in their order sizes and prices months in advance. This meant that they were due shipments at prices lower than the going rate, and upon the formation of the Grain Board several nationwide breweries, but especially Pabst, had rushed in to lock up as many futures as possible at pre-spike prices, leaving the government short of their grain quotas. In other words, overpaying for too little of what they needed.

The ostensible reason the Grain Board attempted to seize by force the grain shipments to Milwaukee was that they needed to get their allotted grains for feeding armies, by hook or by crook, but the image of War Department agents and Wisconsin National Guardsmen marching on the massive Pabst brewery, combined with the ban on interstate alcohol sales and much-discussed proposals to ban alcohol production during the war gave a very different impression. The workforce at Milwaukee’s breweries was also heavily unionized, generally German-speaking and voted for the city’s socialist machine headed by Mayor Emil Seidel and Congressman Victor Berger, giving it a sharply political aspect, too.

The Milwaukee Beer Garden Riots were thus one of the worst civil disturbances of the war. Five blocks of Milwaukee’s brewing district burned down and six men died. The Grain Board retreated after the outcry, and Congress - pushed in part by Berger - stepped in with a stopgap law to better regulate the grain market during the war, largely defusing the dispute, and Pabst voluntarily slashed their production by 70%.

Politically, the Beer Garden Riots were background noise in the broader war but were not soon forgotten by German Wisconsinites. Once thought to be running out of steam, Milwaukee’s Socialists instead retrenched their power; Socialists would control city hall in “Red Milwaukee” without interruption until the early 1980s and Berger’s Congressional seat would stay staunchly Socialist with only a few interregnums as well. A sense of persecution similar to the Samoan War attached itself in many German communities, particularly the post-riot revival of crude stereotypes about beer garden culture, and the German volunteers in the Great American War helped inspire a German-American cultural renaissance across the Upper Midwest…”

- Total Mobilization: The Economics of the Great American War

[1] Keep an eye on Root's position in the Cabinet
[2] "An army marches on its stomach" - Napoleon Bonaparte
This is a great post content wise but I think it could use another edit pass for clarity. There is some confusing grammar in the first few paragraphs. “Beer and Milwaukee are, to many Americans, are virtually synonymous” for example sticks out.

But to the specific content, great snapshot of everyday life being impacted by the war and how such ripples spread through the country.
 
Glad to see a Milwaukee-centric update and happy to see that the city's Socialists remain strong well into the 1980s.

It looks like the Hughes government overstepped here. And I suspect this turns into a public relations coup for Pabst; not only are they the wronged party, but they then do the 'patriotic thing' and still do their best to help the war effort.

I am really hoping that this is a TL which doesn't seem the domination of Budweiser and Miller of the domestic market. Prohibition really did a number on smaller breweries and helped push the consolidation of the industry. So with a potentially less intense, or shorter, Prohibition, we could see a more diverse market (at least moderately so).

On a side note, without WW2 we might see American Beer suffering from it's OTL dystopia and breweries including too much corn in their beer (leading to lack of taste).

And writing this, I suddenly realized I know way too much about the history of regional brewing, lol.

(May Leinenkugel's and Point Special do even better in this ATL)
 
My guess is that if suburbanization is weaker, then the machines are actually stronger than OTL, if that's even possible. NJ politics back in the day and even now are heavily determined by powerful county bosses, and if the various suburban home rule counties like Bergen and Morris are weaker, and cities like Newark and Jersey City are stronger, possible even expanding in territory instead of being constrained by pesky suburbs. Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia page on the subject:

Basically, if a bit of redlining is butterflied here, we could see Newark expand outward, consuming almost half of Essex County in the process, and possibly even parts of Hudson. Jersey City might do something similar with Bayonne, Hoboken, Guttenberg, or even Union City, especially if Frank Hague sees value in adding the cities there to an Irish-based machine, or better yet, loses power to a more accommodating mayor who doesn't only cater to just Irish voters.
Thicc-Newark wasn’t something I’d thought of but isn’t a bad idea. NJ’s population is going to be a LOT bigger by 2023 ITTL so that’s a decent way to get there…
This is a great post content wise but I think it could use another edit pass for clarity. There is some confusing grammar in the first few paragraphs. “Beer and Milwaukee are, to many Americans, are virtually synonymous” for example sticks out.

But to the specific content, great snapshot of everyday life being impacted by the war and how such ripples spread through the country.
Thanks! Admittedly part of that update was finished on my phone lol so might have blown through it a bit quick haha
Glad to see a Milwaukee-centric update and happy to see that the city's Socialists remain strong well into the 1980s.

It looks like the Hughes government overstepped here. And I suspect this turns into a public relations coup for Pabst; not only are they the wronged party, but they then do the 'patriotic thing' and still do their best to help the war effort.

I am really hoping that this is a TL which doesn't seem the domination of Budweiser and Miller of the domestic market. Prohibition really did a number on smaller breweries and helped push the consolidation of the industry. So with a potentially less intense, or shorter, Prohibition, we could see a more diverse market (at least moderately so).

On a side note, without WW2 we might see American Beer suffering from it's OTL dystopia and breweries including too much corn in their beer (leading to lack of taste).

And writing this, I suddenly realized I know way too much about the history of regional brewing, lol.

(May Leinenkugel's and Point Special do even better in this ATL)
Yeah, I definitely want to avoid some of the issues of OTL’s beer industry and making Milwaukee’s mid-size boys a bigger deal fits within the more antitrust friendly, consolidation-hostile US economy ITTL.

Maybe there’s a Stags Leap-style beer award win by a Milwaukee brewery over some hoity toity Bavarian bierhaus? Haha
 
Yeah, I definitely want to avoid some of the issues of OTL’s beer industry and making Milwaukee’s mid-size boys a bigger deal fits within the more antitrust friendly, consolidation-hostile US economy ITTL.

Maybe there’s a Stags Leap-style beer award win by a Milwaukee brewery over some hoity toity Bavarian bierhaus? Haha

Oh, come now - Milwaukee is many things; hoighty-toighty ain't one of them :)

But yes, maintaining the old pattern of brewery distribution (which is only now beginning to reemerge) where most towns of any size had a brewer that distributed regionally would be ideal. You're not going to be able to stop consolidation entirely, of course, but having an expanded upper tier of beer makers which takes up less of the market than the Big Two does in OTL is ideal.

Though my god, I would love to see Leinenkugel's becoming one of the Big Ten ;)

By the way, you may want to look at some of the controvercy over chain stores and chain banks during the 1920s and 30s. Phil LaFollette took a pretty strong stance against them while running for governor initially in 1930 and there was a growing upswell against them before then:

 
Leiny Summer Shandy is what's up. One of my favorite beers of that style.
Honey Weisse and Original all the way! (though I really like their Canoe Paddler Kolsh these days too!)

And you should really try out some Point Special if you like Leinie's: gotta throw some love out to the local brewery back home (when I lived in Fargo, I used to have a pretty nice side gig picking up 24 racks of Point for friends whenever I went back home. great for house parties since 1) it tastes great and 2) no one else would have any, so if you saw someone walking around with one, you know they stole it from your stash :) )
 
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