Yeah, I can't believe they went communist, but it is expected with all that's been foreshadowed.
Cinco de Mayo
- Thread starter KingSweden24
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@KingSweden24, can I reply to this?
(I basically know some of the events in future, due to the fact that I tried to make a HOI4 mod about Cinco de Mayo)
Interesting to see how the US would deal with a Communist country literally on its doorstep. Not sure it would turn into a Cold War though. But it definitely ratchet up the Red Scare by a thousand.
Now I'm imagining an alliance between the United States, Russia, and Japan. The Vladivostok Pact, perhaps?
Any chance of Texas successfully seceding rather being part of the Communist CSA? Given the similar cultures and shared history I could also see some of the border states prefering to try and flip to the Union rather than fall of revolutionaries.
Kind of like how Finland and the Baltics broke away from Russia during the revolution.
Kind of like how Finland and the Baltics broke away from Russia during the revolution.
Nah let’s leave the spoilers for everybody else to discover!
That said the CSA isn’t going Communist, I can say that already
Yeah there’s a reason it was a Triple and not single intervention
The US probably wouldn’t join anything like that formally but their relations with Russia have always been good. Probably the best of any European power in fact
With the important non-communism caveat yes there’s absolutely a chance; Texas has its own interests and alienation already and may eventually not want to share all that oil wealth with everybody else
Day of the Rising Sun
"...the Japanese public's reaction to the Triple Intervention and the follow-on Treaty of Amsterdam was one of outrage, and the political class was no less riven by discord. Riots became common, as did increasingly heated calls to violence; radicalization emerged as the norm of general discourse for the growing middle class left stunned by what they viewed, not incorrectly, as three European powers colluding to jump into the war when it was lost for Spain, rather than at the beginning when such a thing would have been honorable, purely to kneecap Japanese ambitions and deny them the prestige colonies they themselves not only enjoyed but felt entitled to in the Far East.
Within the higher echelons of Japanese society and government, there was no diversity in thought regarding the West - uniformly opposed - but there were open debates about how the new swell in anti-foreign opinion that reminded some of the Boxers in China was best navigated. Yamagata was still a fierce hawk, endorsing a long-range plan to continue building up the Japanese Navy (despite the war with Spain coming close to bankrupting the Empire) so that eventually it could drive its enemies from Asia entirely. Ito had a more circumspect idea, that being to leverage Japan's credentials in Korea and China (Japan had, after all, defeated a European power head to head) and pursue better relations with powers untainted by Amsterdam (such as Russia and the United States) to build a bloc that could box out her chief enemies, particularly France and Britain. Ito's view also relied on Japan being the most prestigious outside power in the Philippines, where Bonifacio's government regarded itself as in its debt. With the long view, Japan would emerge the chief power of the East, that much was settled - the only question now was how..."
- Day of the Rising Sun
Within the higher echelons of Japanese society and government, there was no diversity in thought regarding the West - uniformly opposed - but there were open debates about how the new swell in anti-foreign opinion that reminded some of the Boxers in China was best navigated. Yamagata was still a fierce hawk, endorsing a long-range plan to continue building up the Japanese Navy (despite the war with Spain coming close to bankrupting the Empire) so that eventually it could drive its enemies from Asia entirely. Ito had a more circumspect idea, that being to leverage Japan's credentials in Korea and China (Japan had, after all, defeated a European power head to head) and pursue better relations with powers untainted by Amsterdam (such as Russia and the United States) to build a bloc that could box out her chief enemies, particularly France and Britain. Ito's view also relied on Japan being the most prestigious outside power in the Philippines, where Bonifacio's government regarded itself as in its debt. With the long view, Japan would emerge the chief power of the East, that much was settled - the only question now was how..."
- Day of the Rising Sun
Citizen Hearst
"...meeting at the Knickerbocker between Murphy and Hearst where the wily state party chairman was to be rewarded for his securing of the nomination and, thus, the Presidency. Murphy was given the choice of a Senate seat or serving as Secretary of State, with the understanding being that the choice would affect which of those two offices fell instead to incumbent Senator Archibald Bliss, a longstanding New York Democratic statesman whom Murphy categorized as "unreliable" on a whole host of issues that would be important in the Congress ahead. Murphy thus elected to request the Senate seat for himself in order to serve as Hearst's man in the upper house and thus Bliss was offered the end-of-career appointment as America's chief diplomat, a job in time it would become clear he could manage in an age of peace but was unsuited for as the storm clouds of crisis loomed on the horizon.
The machinations to build the rest of his Cabinet out were not nearly so complicated. Hearst had already eyed George Gray even before the elections as his choice for Attorney General, and the legislative skullduggery that led to Gray's loss of his Delaware Senate seat made the legal eminence available for a new job quite unexpectedly. As Treasury Secretary he settled on Cincinnati businessman and newspaperman John McLean, who had reluctantly served as Richard Bland's ticket mate in 1896 but had been one of the chief financiers of the Ohio Democratic Party and had in the months after the 1904 elections bought the Washington Post as well, giving him an excuse to be in Washington full time as he managed his new acquisition. McLean was a choice met with some skepticism by progressives, including Johnson, but was accepted as he was seen as a capable administrator, having a keen understanding of finance and would have outside interests to concern himself with and thus be unlikely to interfere in the major overhauls of banking and securities that Hearst viewed as his primary mandate from the voters [1]. As Secretary of War, he appointed prominent New Jersey attorney (and key protege of Senate Majority Leader McAdoo) Lindley Garrison; to the Naval Department went John D. Smith of Maryland, also a former failed running mate, and to the Department of Agriculture a sop to the radicals with Charles Bryan, brother of William. Hearst was quite pleased with his Cabinet, and with the major offices selected, had little concern about their approval by the Senate upon his inauguration on March 4, 1905.
His inauguration was financed primarily on his own dime; it was easily the most lavish in decades, and had a different tenor to it. Save a four-year interregnum, Liberals had dominated the Presidency for a quarter-century, and Hearst entering office with supermajorities in Congress and his party in control of most of the states was a decisive break from that status quo most Americans were used to. The inauguration thus had a revolutionary, modern feel to it; Hearst and Johnson, like most younger people of the day, wore no facial hair, and Hearst's speech was famed for its fiery zeal. In it, he drew comparisons to the age of his idol Jackson, decrying "an oligarchy of moneyed interests and corrupted state power, governing the nation not through the will of the popular vote but the vagaries of minute legalism and the prejudices of the wealthy." In the inaugural address's most famous riposte, he declared, "Our Republic will prosper at home and among all nations of the world only when its foundation is one of common cause," and then somberly continued, "an age in which liberty and justice are known only by the few means that tyranny and injustice are thus reserved for the masses."
It was pure Hearst - populist, idealist and demagogic, yet also upbeat, eloquent and sharply incisive. Many in the crowd were stunned at its tone, but many more were ebullient that at last Washington seemed to have a new cadre of leadership that had replaced its conservative and stagnant political class. The Hearst Era had come..."
- Citizen Hearst
[1] A lot of Democrats are going to have other ideas, of course, but this is where Hearst's attention lies and the reasoning will be expounded on in further updates
The machinations to build the rest of his Cabinet out were not nearly so complicated. Hearst had already eyed George Gray even before the elections as his choice for Attorney General, and the legislative skullduggery that led to Gray's loss of his Delaware Senate seat made the legal eminence available for a new job quite unexpectedly. As Treasury Secretary he settled on Cincinnati businessman and newspaperman John McLean, who had reluctantly served as Richard Bland's ticket mate in 1896 but had been one of the chief financiers of the Ohio Democratic Party and had in the months after the 1904 elections bought the Washington Post as well, giving him an excuse to be in Washington full time as he managed his new acquisition. McLean was a choice met with some skepticism by progressives, including Johnson, but was accepted as he was seen as a capable administrator, having a keen understanding of finance and would have outside interests to concern himself with and thus be unlikely to interfere in the major overhauls of banking and securities that Hearst viewed as his primary mandate from the voters [1]. As Secretary of War, he appointed prominent New Jersey attorney (and key protege of Senate Majority Leader McAdoo) Lindley Garrison; to the Naval Department went John D. Smith of Maryland, also a former failed running mate, and to the Department of Agriculture a sop to the radicals with Charles Bryan, brother of William. Hearst was quite pleased with his Cabinet, and with the major offices selected, had little concern about their approval by the Senate upon his inauguration on March 4, 1905.
His inauguration was financed primarily on his own dime; it was easily the most lavish in decades, and had a different tenor to it. Save a four-year interregnum, Liberals had dominated the Presidency for a quarter-century, and Hearst entering office with supermajorities in Congress and his party in control of most of the states was a decisive break from that status quo most Americans were used to. The inauguration thus had a revolutionary, modern feel to it; Hearst and Johnson, like most younger people of the day, wore no facial hair, and Hearst's speech was famed for its fiery zeal. In it, he drew comparisons to the age of his idol Jackson, decrying "an oligarchy of moneyed interests and corrupted state power, governing the nation not through the will of the popular vote but the vagaries of minute legalism and the prejudices of the wealthy." In the inaugural address's most famous riposte, he declared, "Our Republic will prosper at home and among all nations of the world only when its foundation is one of common cause," and then somberly continued, "an age in which liberty and justice are known only by the few means that tyranny and injustice are thus reserved for the masses."
It was pure Hearst - populist, idealist and demagogic, yet also upbeat, eloquent and sharply incisive. Many in the crowd were stunned at its tone, but many more were ebullient that at last Washington seemed to have a new cadre of leadership that had replaced its conservative and stagnant political class. The Hearst Era had come..."
- Citizen Hearst
[1] A lot of Democrats are going to have other ideas, of course, but this is where Hearst's attention lies and the reasoning will be expounded on in further updates
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How likely is it that one of the three Triple Intervention powers is to violate the terms of the Treaty of Amsterdam, on the basis that it could and because it did not care what the Japanese thought?
Extremely likely given that Japan is in no position to defy them.
There’s not much for them to violate re: Japan though since all three of those power basically got what they wanted out of it - namely, Japan not having a formal presence in the East Indies beyond the scraps of the Batanes.
Huh. I get it, he was elected in the middle of a depression mostly caused by an unregulated financial sector. The country needs some regulation and a Federal Reserve in the worst way. But I'd posit that the biggest problems facing the country (at least domestically) are - in no particular order:
1 - The need for real and effective anti-trust/anti-monopoly legislation that is clear and unambigous so the Edmunds court can't exploit a loophole and strike it down
2 - Electoral reform. Direct election of senators first and foremost. This includes women and black suffarage (no 15th Amendment ITTL)
3 - A national labor package, probably including a national arbitration board (to mirror the one in NY) and some sort of child labor laws
4 - A national income tax. This might be folded into whatever Hearst is planning with his overhaul of banking and securities though.
I think Bill Hearst would agree because you’ve basically described his Fair Deal agenda! Haha. Though I think he’d probably regarded securities reform as being of a kind with antitrust.
The real debate is how to prioritize these items/which ones to go boldest on, once direct Senators is done which basically the whole Democratic Party is in full alignment on save a handful of conservatives
It’ll be interesting to see what happens what he does when the GAW happens. Maybe he won’t ramp up government power nearly as much as Wilson did so much with the espionage act and whatnot.
I thought the GAW wasn't supposed to start until 1913, that is, after Hearst leaves office and Hughes takes over.
Unless, of course, the incident that sets things off happens in Hearst's lame-duck term in January/February 1913 or something.
Nah Hearst gets to leave office as a peacetime President (probably for the best, the man had… quite the temperament)
I thought he was in office during the war. Didn’t you indicate the war would start in 1910? I think u hinted at it when you talked about the Boxer War
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