Church Bans Compass

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

1326: Pope John XXII issues a Papal Bull forbidding various sorts of divination, including the use of dowsing rods to find water or treasure, and the use of lodestones to find directions.

So: until the alt-Reformation, Europeans don't use compasses ; while Arab and Chinese explorers do.

Effects?

 

[WilyBadger]

At a guess, a number of ship captains use them secretly, and when asked how they got to the New World they just say that God guided them. Everyone bitches and moans until they see gold, and that's the end of that issue.

 

[Halcyon Dayz]

You conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

People do a lot of things they aren't supposed to.
A compass is to neat not to use. Even if you have to be sneaky about it.

ETA: What Wily said.

 

[strangeland]

Popes also tried to ban crossbows. Look how well that turned out. If a device is too effective not to be used, people will use it regardless of what the church says.

 

[karl2025]

Yeah, plus a lot of bishops would disagree with the Pope anyway. He wouldn't be infaliable until... the 1800s?

 

[BrotherToAll]

Yeah, plus a lot of bishops would disagree with the Pope anyway. He wouldn't be infaliable until... the 1800s?

In matters of faith and morals not politics and science and its not the human who is infaliable but the office of the Papacy that is infaliable. The Pope actually now has less leway in what he can say and do because of Papal infaliability. There has always been factions of the Church who have stood up and spoke out against the absurd rullings of many Popes. This would just go down in history as another silly Pope making an absurd rulling and would latter be struck down by a more progressive Pope, happens all the time in Church history.

 

[Broz]

the church would newer ban the compass as such it would at most condem the practice of divining and geomancy in general but no sane person, clergiman or layman, would ever decide not to use a compass when sailing or on any other kind of trip, simply becouse of a papal decree
popes decreed something new every few years, and usualy the first next pope would cancell any unusual or impracticall decree his predecesor wrote
the chatolic church was not as centralised as people think and most bishops would laugh at this

also it was not the stile of the chatolic church to ban sefull devices that did no obvious direct harm christians, or changed the social order in some way

 

[Alexius]

It would probably be even less successful than the Papal attempts to ban crossbows or tournaments. After all, a compass is more essential than a tournament (which is a leisure activity) or a crossbow (which can be replaced by a longbow).

Both of the bans I mention had no success whatsoever- tournaments actually became more popular!

 

[Chengar Qordath]

It would probably be even less successful than the Papal attempts to ban crossbows or tournaments. After all, a compass is more essential than a tournament (which is a leisure activity) or a crossbow (which can be replaced by a longbow).

Both of the bans I mention had no success whatsoever- tournaments actually became more popular!

A longbow isn't really much of a substitute for a crossbow; a crossbow has better range, accuracy, ability to penetrate armor, and the use of a pavise makes the slower firing rate less of an issue. Most importantly, using a longbow required almost constant training to retain proficeincy, while the average peasant could be drilled into using a crossbow with a couple weeks of training.

Back on topic, agreed with what everyone else has said that a ban on compasses will just be ignored.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Sylvester II would be rolling over in his grave.

...And the ban would be ignored.

 

[Keenir]

1326: Pope John XXII issues a Papal Bull forbidding various sorts of divination, including the use of dowsing rods to find water or treasure, and the use of lodestones to find directions.

So: until the alt-Reformation, Europeans don't use compasses ;

didn't one of the Popes (or several of them) also issue a Papal Bull forbidding crossbows?

 

[Alexius]

didn't one of the Popes (or several of them) also issue a Papal Bull forbidding crossbows?

See my post...
Although it may be disputed, Innocent II tried to forbid the use of crossbows (and normal bows, perhaps!) against Christians in 1139. It didn't work. The dispute is that the article has also been read as, instead, forbidding betting on archery competitions...

 

[Analytical Engine]

Heck, one Pope tried to ban forks...

 

[Thande]

Heck, one Pope tried to ban forks...

Only because they were associated with the Arabs and were brought back from the Crusades...

I can't imagine the American government nowadays being terribly thrilled if the troops currently in Iraq came back all enthusing about Al-Qaeda having superior technology in anything, even food utensils. It's the principle of the thing.

 

[WilyBadger]

Heck, one Pope tried to ban forks...

That's so forked up... Thank you! I'm here all week!

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

1326: Pope John XXII issues a Papal Bull forbidding various sorts of divination, including the use of dowsing rods to find water or treasure, and the use of lodestones to find directions.

So: until the alt-Reformation, Europeans don't use compasses ; while Arab and Chinese explorers do.

Effects?

Not going to happen. The crossbow and tournament bans were enacted not out of suspicion of new ideas, but of a futile attempt to stop European nobles and their forces from hacking each other all the time - think of it as medieval gun control.

And on the infallibility thing, there was a general sense of infallibility, and a rudimentary form of it was probably generally believed prior to Vatican I, which merely put down in writing what had been custom. It actually has, as pointed out, a restraining effect, as it prevents a presumably heretical Pope from overturning precedent rulings on core matters of faith.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Europeans (especially Catholic countries) would not reach America and India through seas because there is no compass equals no prosperity and Chinese and Arab merchants will prosper because Europeans didn't reach due to the prohibition of compass by the Catholic Church.

 

[NCW]

It would probably be even less successful than the Papal attempts to ban crossbows or tournaments. After all, a compass is more essential than a tournament (which is a leisure activity) or a crossbow (which can be replaced by a longbow).

Both of the bans I mention had no success whatsoever- tournaments actually became more popular!

In other words, it's a medieval equivalent to papal statements condemning Harry Potter books (which I tend to believed are given wider publicity by the publishers because they make good advertising copy).

Not going to happen. The crossbow and tournament bans were enacted not out of suspicion of new ideas, but of a futile attempt to stop European nobles and their forces from hacking each other all the time - think of it as medieval gun control.

"Crossbows don't kill people - Peasants kill people!"

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

A ban on compasses just isn't going to work. It's too easy to cheat.

A much harder thing to hide was a priest being married (or effectively so) during the time when clerical celibacy was enforced. Since I'm the direct descendant of a priest, the son of a bishop, the son of a priest in those times, I can assure you that my very existence demonstrates the spotty enforcement of THAT ban.

(said bishop was Jon biskup Arason, the last RC bishop of Iceland. In fact, when the messenger from the Danish king arrived saying Iceland was now Lutheran, the other bishop said, "ja, sure, you betcha" and married his woman. My ancestor said, "down with heresy", and marched south to imprison the turncoat. So Iceland stayed RC for one more winter until the sea ice melted and the Danish king could land soldiers. NB: quotes above not exact translations)