Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Mario, Dec 12, 2018.
The Serbians would always be a thorn. But at least the Eastern Empire freed the Holy Land!
Map of 1100
And here the updated version of the map of cultures of the Roman Empire:
Was the old king of Norway so desperate as to give so much territory and become a vassal in all but name? That is too OP in my opinion.
And while the Byzantines have problems controlling the Serbs and Turks they'll always harp the West about the return of Epirus.
Considering that without external help he would have been probably overthrown and killed...
Moreover, the King had just a slight control over the southern duchies, which had already been under Roman influence for decades.
Also Norway has now much interest on Roman funding on their 'colonies' in the North Atlantic. Let's say is more 'partnership' than pure vassalage.
Epirus was considered an important part of the core of the Empire, while Southern Serbia was just an annoying pseudobarbaric territory.
For Constantinople, the control over what they considered their core (at that moment, Greek-speaking areas of the Balkanic-Helladic peninsula and Anatolia) was always priority.
What are your plans on the national identity of this WRE? Will we eventually see Germanization or Latinisation of the people?
I think complete Germanization/Latinisation of the whole Empire would be quite ASB. Of course both would have prevalence over Slavic or Brittonic dialects, but realistically at the end every duchy would form their own cultural/linguistic profile based on one of them or even Slavic or other languages (or a mix of more than one).
In order to keep all these semi-independent and culturally different entities together it is obvious that Christianism has to play a key role as a glue, so an antagonistic big entitiy (the Islamic Turkish Empire) should act as a counterpart.
I am assuming that ERE is gonna blow up soon, isn't?
Not that soon, but its position between two bigger entities is not very promising.
However, 'blow up' is not the word.
Marriage and PU is a more bloodless alternative.
Decade of 1100s
1100: Turkish expedition to Nubia: first (but failed) Turkish attempt to expand into Islamic Africa from their new dominions in Arabia.
1101: The first big permanent settlement, Karlsburg, is established in the coast of Vinland. Terra Nova is reorganized as the first 'New World duchy' under joint sovereignty of Rome and Norway, including the administration of new settlements in Markland and Vinland.
1102: Following the fate of neighbouring Asturias, the puppetized Kingdom of Galicia is formally annexed to the Roman Empire after the death of King Fruela without an apparent heir.
1103: The Emirate of Tunis gains control over the Islamic chiefdom of Sabratha. The Sultanate of Egypt tries to besiege Alexandria, but their troops are finally forced to retire.
1104: The Turkish Empire completes the conquest of the valley of the Indus, setting there its eastern border with the Hindustanic kingdoms.
1105: The city of Onuba (Huelva) in southern Spain is conquered by the Roman-Lusitanian armies. First Roman expedition to the African Andalus, which is destroyed by the Andalusian forces in the nearby of Tanger.
1106: Following the example of Terra Nova, Greenland and Helluland form their own duchy separate from Iceland, but with exclusive Norwegian sovereignty.
1107: Scottish uprising in the Norwegian Caledonia: the Roman troops from Roman Britain help the Norwegians to crush the rebellion.
1108: Establishment of the Roman duchy of Masovia without an agreement with Lithuania: start of the long First Roman-Lithuanian War.
1109: Reform of the Diet of Pavia: the ducal representatives are allowed to form 'parties' following the lineage affinities between them. One seat is assigned to Terra Nova (Neufundland) for the first time.
Decade of 1110s
1110: The Turks start the invasion of the minor Islamic chiefdoms of the Erythrean coast close to Yemen: first step of the Turkish expansion into Africa.
1111: The Roman-Luistanian troops fail to besiege the Andalusian city of Seville. In the East of Spain, the Roman-Gothic military forces reach the mouth of the river Segura.
1112: Creation of the Imperial Trade League of the North: the profits of the trade of fur, walrus ivory, whale products and other goods from the Northern territories are specially taxed for funding the military activities of the Roman Empire in Europe.
1113: The Caliphate of the Andalus retreats from the Western Sahara after a massive raid of a Tuareg confederation destroys their southern military camps.
1114: New partition of (Southern) Serbia: the Romans gain control over the city of Nis, while the Byzantines recover the Upper Macedonia.
1115: For the first time, a Roman-Norwegian ship is able to return from Terra Nova directly to a port in Cornwall, without following the 'hopping' route through all the Northern territories.
1116: Death of Emperor Charles II without male heirs. His eldest nephew Charles III is crowned Emperor in Milan.
1117: First Roman-Norwegian fishing settlements in the peninsula of Nova Scotia. The territory of Vinland is also expanded upwards the valley of the Saint Lawrence.
1118: Slavic Uprising in Poland: Boleslaw the Red and his rebels take control over most of the Greater Poland.
1119: Roman annexation of the little principality of Cumbria after the death of the Prince without apparent heirs.
Map of 1120
It would be good turn the ERE into a kingmaker between both powers.
Decade of 1120s
1120: The edict of Toledo allows the settlement of many Germanic settlers in the depopulated valleys of the Tajo and Guadiana, in central Spain.
1121: Uprising in Yemen against the Turkish domination: the political instability of the area prevents the Turks to speed their expansion into Erythrea and Somalia.
1122: End of the First Roman-Lithuanian War: the Roman Empire ensures its dominion over Masovia, while Lithuania controls most of Prussia.
1123: A civil war breaks out in the Principality of Wales, between pro- and anti-Danish factions. The Danes of Ireland deploy troops in the country for supporting their allies.
1124: The Kingdom of Sweden, under the rule of Christian the Great, starts the settlement and evangelization of neighbouring Finland.
1125: Roman discovery of the island of All Saints (OTL Nantucket), marking the new southernmost point of the Roman-Norwegian exploration of the Terra Nova.
1126: The Turks resume war against the Magyars for the control of the west bank of the Dniepr river and the access to the Crimean peninsula.
1127: First Roman siege of Cartagena: the Roman navy attacks the city, but the Andalusians manage to resist enough time for forcing the retreat of the Roman troops due to lack of supplies.
1128: The Roman-Cumbrians conquer the isle of Man after the withdrawal of the Welsh troops, due to the ongoing civil war in Wales.
1129: Foundation of the city of Sachseburg in the Islands of the Emperor (OTL Prince Edward islands) and other minor settlements for whalers in the neighbouring mainland coast.
Terra Nova in 1130
Decade of 1130s
1130: The Turks start a campaign of occupation of the southern half of the Sultanate of Egypt.
1131: Second siege of Seville: the Roman armies raid the lower part of the valley of the Guadalquivir and capture many minor villages between Seville and Cádiz. However, the siege finally fails again.
1132: A Roman-Vinlandic expedition discovers the lake Marian (Mariansee / OTL Ontario) and opens the path to a full European settlement of the valley of the Saint Lawrence between this lake and the sea.
1133: The Byzantines struggle to protect Jerusalem from a Turkish raid. The Roman Emperor offers an army to help the Byzantines to defend the Holy Land: beginning of the Roman military presence in Palestine.
1134: The Romans capture the city of Cádiz and disconnect the Andalusian city of Seville from its access to the Atlantic Ocean.
1135: The continued expansion of the Kingdom of Sweden causes the first border conflicts with Norway in western Geatland.
1136: After the death of King Arvidas, the Kingdom of Lithuania is divided between his two twin sons. The Romans resume war with Northern Lithuania for the control of Prussia and Masuria.
1137: Seville finally falls and it is captured by the Roman armies. The Caliphate of the Andalus moves its Iberian capital from Cordoba to Granada.
1138: Fearing a major deployment of Irish-Danish forces in Wales, the British Roman duchies intervene in the Principality for supporting the anti-Danish faction.
1139: Collapse of the Magyar Empire under Turkish pressure: both Roman Emperors agree on a joint occupation of the western areas of the former Empire for halting the Turkish advance up to their own borders in the Balkans.
One clarification regarding the settlements in northeastern America:
- The toponym 'Terra Nova' originally applied to the island of Terra Nova (OTL Newfoundland), but later this was extended to the rest of the 'new continent'. Anyway, the island retained this name and also the duchy it formed.
- At first, the Roman-Norwegian expeditions did not consider they were exploring a whole new continent but 'islands in the Far North' (Iceland, Greenland...Helluland, Terra Nova) and also considered that Vinland and Markland might be just parts of major islands. The discovery of the lake Marian (Ontario) in 1132 changed this perspective and suggested that, at least Vinland was part of a large landmass, and not just a huge island.
- Until then, the Terra Nova was not considered 'a colony' in OTL Age of Explorers sense, just another duchy with the peculiarity of being distant and which settlement and exploitment was shared with the skilled Norwegian travellers. But remember that at the same time other Pagan and underpopulated territories were being settled in the core of Europe. For the Romans there were no much difference between Terra Nova and let's say Prussia or Masuria (Pagan, low populated uncivilized territories up for settlement and evangelization). Once christianized, they established autonomous duchies, not colonies.
- Thus, by 1132 there is no sense of colonization or discovery of a new world like IOTL 16th century. Just settlement of new territories in the borders of the Empire. Even the realization that Vinland would be a 'continent' does not change this idea, just the geographical perspective. The territories settled until this moment do not boost any 'gold/silver/fortune fever': they provide some profitable goods like fur, whales, walrus ivory...but this does not boost an acceleration of the exploration as the Roman/Norwegians do not expect to find any Eldorado there. This is why the exploration of the Terra Nova is kept at low pace.
This is a pretty extreme Carolingian wank, and I love it. Keep up the good work
Decade of 1140s
1140: Death of the Emperor Charles III. His son George I is crowned new Emperor in Milan.
1141: The Byzantines capture the Crimean peninsula and creates a Protectorate there: most of the Magyar population abandons the peninsula and resettle in the new 'Roman Hungaria'.
1142: The Romans finally control the Iberian part of the Strait of Gibraltar: George I sets the whole control of the strait as the first priority in the Imperial strategic plans.
1143: The Turks conquer the city of Aswan, in southern Egypt, while they advance into the Sinai peninsula in the North; however, the Byzantines manage to stop them in their advance towards Gaza.
1144: Rise of the wealthy Islamic Empire of Mali in West Africa: the Caliphate of the Andalus seeks financial help of the Malians for fighting the Romans in the strait.
1145: Crisis in Terra Nova: the new duke of Terra Nova, Louis the Frankish, ends the ducal allegiance to the Norwegian Crown, becoming an only subject to Rome.
1146: Following the crisis in Terra Nova, many Norwegian settlers abandon the duchy and creates a new one in neighbouring (and still unsettled) Weissmannland, under Norwegian sovereignty. Meanwhile, a group of English settlers, unhappy with the new political scenario in Terra Nova, decide to sail southwards the All Saints islands and settle in New England (OTL Long Island).
1147: The Turks are decisively defeated by a joint Roman-Byzantine army in the mouth of the Dniepr River: end of the Turkish advances in the area.
1148: The Emperor George I dies after an accident with his horse: his brother Charles IV is crowned new Emperor in Milan.
1149: Charles IV is the first (Western) Roman Emperor to suggest the idea of an eventual 'reunification of the Christian World' (= reunification with Constantinople) during a season of the Diet of Pavia, but his ideas are then rejected by both the Roman dukes and the Byzantine court.*
Separate names with a comma.