Christianity Without Paul

WilyBadger

So let's say Paul is walking along the road to Damascus when, suddenly, he gets ran over by a small cart.

What becomes of Christianity at this point? Assuming it continues to exist, which is likely, I would feel, does it ever grow beyond being a mere mystery cult in the backwaters of the Roman Empire? If so, what form does it take without the sexism of Paul?
 

Bobindelaware

I rather suspect that Christianity would have remained a Jewish sect, sort of along the lines of the Essenes, and remained an Eastern religion. Paul was essentially the one who brought Christianity to the Western (Greek) world in his travels, founding major churches in Asia Minor and Greece and contributed strongly to the Church at Rome (Which St Peter later "took over"). In addition, he forced the early Christians to move from a Judaizing process as a prerequisite for baptism (circumcision) at the Jerusalem Conference (Opposing St Peter, interestingly enough!) and opened the door for Gentiles - non-Jews - to enter the faith. (the last sentence is an oversimplification I know, but . . . ) This was the primary reason he focused on the Western part of the Empire, possibly as far as Spain and essentially westernized Christianity.

It's probably safe to say that without St. Paul, Christianity would have been a non-issue on the greater world stage.

Bobbo
 

Broz

i alwais wonder what would happen if budism or/and zoroastrinism spread to the west

for zoroastrianism it makes sence they were not so big on misionaries, at least as far as i know, but budism was, and it was practically there, rome had contacts with both present day afganistan wich was thorouly helenised and fervently budist, and india

probbably a lot of thing would be suprisingly similar, monks, monasteries, katedrals and so on, maybe even inquisitions and holy wars, but the role ofreligion in general culture might of been wider, possibly more oriented thovards education
 

Chengar Qordath

I'd imagine that if Christianity remains a relatively isolated mystery cult we'd likely see the other developments in the Roman religious world continue; I would guess we probably end up with either Neoplatonism or Gnosticism (or a merging of the two) as the dominant religion/philosophy of the Roman Empire.
 

WilyBadger

You know, I was working on an idea for a time line once where Jesus was never invented/born, and as a result there was never any Christianity. The religion I ended up with as being dominant was something crossing Roman and Persian faiths, leaving most Romans worshiping Jupiter Zoroaster. The Roman Empire still collapsed, but it happened a little later than in our timeline. I never really figured out what I wanted to do with it after that point. Maybe I'll try to work on it a bit.
 

Snake Featherston

Banned
WilyBadger said:
You know, I was working on an idea for a time line once where Jesus was never invented/born, and as a result there was never any Christianity. The religion I ended up with as being dominant was something crossing Roman and Persian faiths, leaving most Romans worshiping Jupiter Zoroaster. The Roman Empire still collapsed, but it happened a little later than in our timeline. I never really figured out what I wanted to do with it after that point. Maybe I'll try to work on it a bit.
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A not-so-minor correction, Zoroastrians worship Ahura Mazda, not Zoroaster. Very seldom does a religion deify its founder. Some, like Buddhism in all sorts and Confucianism and Islam and even sects of Christianity like Lutheranism and Mormonism may hold their founder in high regard and veneration. But to state that "Our founder is the One and Only True God," is not found in very many other religions other than Christianity, and depending on interpretations, a couple of Mesoamerican religions.
 

WilyBadger

This is true, and I do know that, so I don't know why I put Jupiter Zoroaster there. Perhaps just because Jupiter Ahura Mazda would sound a little odd. :)
 

Georgepattonjr

Banned
The idea of this religion not having existed would lead to what could possibly a different future. While Judaism would still hold around would there really be any type of christianity vs everyone war like what has been seen in the past?
 

the_lyniezian

Banned
I would submit that the doctrine of Christianity was not influenced by Paul's ideas, rather by God Himself as the Holy Spirit moved the writers of the scriptures to write, or to preach, and by the teaching and life of Jesus.

Now I could go further and suggest that since it was God's will to use Paul, this scenario belongs in the ASB extreme fantasists' section, but one needs to examine the possibilities.

So we might assume Paul/Saul does not get used of God in the way he was*, and probably the best we'd see is a slightly different NT, but little doctrine changed overall if the Bible is read properly. There may, however, be different interpretations as a result as the years go on rising from different disputable parts of the text, and incorrect readings thereof.

I know a lot of people would have Paul written out of the NT, mainly either to his non-PC views on women or those who prefer to deny that faith alone is what saves (sola fide), etc. But I cannot subscribe to that POV.

*Not that I believe it possible...
 

Uber_Amoeba

the_lyniezian said:
I would submit that the doctrine of Christianity was not influenced by Paul's ideas, rather by God Himself as the Holy Spirit moved the writers of the scriptures to write, or to preach, and by the teaching and life of Jesus.

Now I could go further and suggest that since it was God's will to use Paul, this scenario belongs in the ASB extreme fantasists' section, but one needs to examine the possibilities.

So we might assume Paul/Saul does not get used of God in the way he was*, and probably the best we'd see is a slightly different NT, but little doctrine changed overall if the Bible is read properly. There may, however, be different interpretations as a result as the years go on rising from different disputable parts of the text, and incorrect readings thereof.

I know a lot of people would have Paul written out of the NT, mainly either to his non-PC views on women or those who prefer to deny that faith alone is what saves (sola fide), etc. But I cannot subscribe to that POV.

*Not that I believe it possible...
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Why do you keep posting in Biblical PoD threads just to say "Why, I don't think that is possible!"? What can it possibly add to the discussion beyond reminding us that, yes, you are a Christian and have no truck with this 'alternative history' tomfoolery?
 

the_lyniezian

Banned
Uber_Amoeba said:
Why do you keep posting in Biblical PoD threads just to say "Why, I don't think that is possible!"? What can it possibly add to the discussion beyond reminding us that, yes, you are a Christian and have no truck with this 'alternative history' tomfoolery?
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I don't disagree with all AH, just that certain things are IMO beyond changing. I am trying to provide a possible way of loking into the possibilities from as Christian a viewpoint as I can muster, but I feel something needs adding to/setting straight in these discussions.

Moving on, I don't see Christianity as 100% without Paul (i.e. he would be saved), unless it is possible he could not exist in certain TL's. Whether God uses him or not is a speculative question, though of corse, ultimately God's will and not something I am easy putting forward.
 

Nicksplace27

The Sicilian said:
What?! Explain.
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Read Sam Harris. If you agree with him, you'd know that expanding unreason is a big contributor to the Dark Ages and much of the strife our society has expierenced. Paul was the biggest pedaller of it in his time and without it, there would be a lot more reason.
 

PaleHorseRiding

Banned
Nicksplace27 said:
Read Sam Harris. If you agree with him, you'd know that expanding unreason is a big contributor to the Dark Ages and much of the strife our society has expierenced. Paul was the biggest pedaller of it in his time and without it, there would be a lot more reason.
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oh yes the germans who conquered the roman empire are the biggest carriers of the standards of logic and reason
 
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