Now I know that Christianity had in fact absorbed certain pagan elements into itself, but what would a religion that more fully blended Christianity with the various types of Paganism across Europe look like? would it be something similar to say Sikhism were it starts off as a sort of blend of two faiths that gains its own identity over time, or would it be something different?
Christianity Paganism syncretism.
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Albert.Nik
Banned
To start with,our Timeline Christianity itself is a Syncretism with Paganism of one sort.
If you are looking for a more syncreticm version,you need to totally butterfly the Crises that struck the Waning Roman Empire,from Third century onwards.
If you are looking for a more syncreticm version,you need to totally butterfly the Crises that struck the Waning Roman Empire,from Third century onwards.
Maybe more resistance against Christianism? Bishops could still try and go up and down baptizing and spreading Christianity, but in a more hostile setting they (and the people they try to convert) would rather blend both faiths than choosing one or the other.
I find something interesting:
https://www.ucg.org/vertical-thought/paganism-in-christianity
Disclaimer: I do not belong to this organization.
Max Sinister
Banned
Jewish obviously, but aren't the pagan elements (Easter Bunny, major celebration of the winter solstice) just surface elements?
From my personnal understandings, the "pagan elements" you find in Christiannity are generally just having Celebrations on Great Pagan Feasts days (like Christmas being celebrated at the same time Romans celebrated Winter Solstice) or having a cult of Saints with similar attributions to that of the local Pantheon.
Ive been meaning to save this somewhere as I have written the post, but here goes anyway.
So there is a lot of potential for this OTL, one example being somewhat apocryphal and the other kind of weird in it's non acceptance otl.
For the apocryphal version, there is a largely spread story that the Christian missionaries to the germanic peoples told them that their own mythology was actually the past world, our world being post ragnorok and Baldr being Yahweh/Jesus with the bible as this world's story.
Ive found a few references to this in history books, but when I follow the references it always seems to come to a dead end. So take that with a pinch of salt.
I am somewhat inclined to think that this might have happened based on two premises.
Firstly, it explains some of the christian themes present in the eddas and the portrayal of Baldr as somewhat christlike in a culture which didn't really have the same significance placed on such narritives.
The other is the existence of the second example.
Otl, anyone familiar with the Irish Book of Invasions will note a rather interesting trend of Christian syncretism. As many cultures did, they tried to integrate Christianity into Irish history, the earliest tribe of ireland being another group of Ark survivors, a later tribe being another escaped group in the exodus and later the gods themselves converting to Christianity.
Curiously for an attempt to Christianise Irish mythology, it actually promotes a radically different theology. Yahweh of course is real, but so too is the Goddess Danu in a fashion weirdly reminiscent of later Wicca.
It is worth noting that even to this day, a lot of devout Christians have accepted the book of invasions and the Annals that reference them, the aristocratic side of my heritage tracing their way back to the god Lugh. I imagine with no centralisation, another Abrahamic faith that is literally half pagan could be based in Ireland.
So there is a lot of potential for this OTL, one example being somewhat apocryphal and the other kind of weird in it's non acceptance otl.
For the apocryphal version, there is a largely spread story that the Christian missionaries to the germanic peoples told them that their own mythology was actually the past world, our world being post ragnorok and Baldr being Yahweh/Jesus with the bible as this world's story.
Ive found a few references to this in history books, but when I follow the references it always seems to come to a dead end. So take that with a pinch of salt.
I am somewhat inclined to think that this might have happened based on two premises.
Firstly, it explains some of the christian themes present in the eddas and the portrayal of Baldr as somewhat christlike in a culture which didn't really have the same significance placed on such narritives.
The other is the existence of the second example.
Otl, anyone familiar with the Irish Book of Invasions will note a rather interesting trend of Christian syncretism. As many cultures did, they tried to integrate Christianity into Irish history, the earliest tribe of ireland being another group of Ark survivors, a later tribe being another escaped group in the exodus and later the gods themselves converting to Christianity.
Curiously for an attempt to Christianise Irish mythology, it actually promotes a radically different theology. Yahweh of course is real, but so too is the Goddess Danu in a fashion weirdly reminiscent of later Wicca.
It is worth noting that even to this day, a lot of devout Christians have accepted the book of invasions and the Annals that reference them, the aristocratic side of my heritage tracing their way back to the god Lugh. I imagine with no centralisation, another Abrahamic faith that is literally half pagan could be based in Ireland.
The fact that Christianity absorbed some Pagan elements hardly qualifies as "syncretism" IMHO. For instance, the fact that Jesus is depicted with the resemblance of some Greek philosopher is just a way to make him look more "familiar" in Roman-Greek world. Same goes for Christmas: the "Dies Natalis Christi" just took over the "Dies Natalis Solis Invicti". This is not the same as saying "this is Jesus Crist-Sol Invictus". It was just practical to "dress", so to speak, the new body of the Christian Theology with older, more familiar robes. It is interesting to note that the existence of the Pagan Gods was not denied; instead, they were ranked as Demons, and their statues were mutilated (broken noses, not to make them nourish with the smoke of the offers; their eyes holed up, not to make them see what was happening, and so on).
I cantotally picture the Old Gods being granted "douleia" as the Saints, with the "Hyperdouleia" being kept only for the Virgin Mary and the Latreia just for God. I have read somewhere that even in Continental Europe a cult of sorts for the Genius Loci was at least tolerated in the countryside well into the Christian era.
Now, this is really interesting; thanks for sharing this!
I cantotally picture the Old Gods being granted "douleia" as the Saints, with the "Hyperdouleia" being kept only for the Virgin Mary and the Latreia just for God. I have read somewhere that even in Continental Europe a cult of sorts for the Genius Loci was at least tolerated in the countryside well into the Christian era.
Now this seems really interesting.
Though lets take the Greek pantheon for example. Maybe God and Zeus are kind of treated as the same thing, with the other Gods being blended with Angels, and Jesus getting blended with some of Zeuses more well known offspring..... Super-humanly strong Jesus beheading a Medusa-demon thing.
I am unsure about the blending of JHWH and Iuppiter, but Jesus/Heracles seems doable. The Italic cult of Heracles has some good seeds in order to turn him into a messianic figure. On the other hand, an earlier Evangelium Nicodemi (the apocryphal account of Jesus' feats in the Underworld) could well be modeled on an herculean model. Twelve labours in three days, sounds good enough.
Superstitions and the fact that they leave offering still to pre-Christian gods in some places, they have house gods, like guardians if you will, house elves. I many years ago was in college and taking a Russian culture and history class. The first day she stepped on a students foot, nothing unusual, however she proceeded to make a visual effort to step again on that foot. She later explained that as a child she was brought up to do that or both her and the person that she stepped on would have bad luck. It was weird, by the end of that class several students and I came to the same conclusion, that Soviet Communism did a piss poor job modernizing the Russian people. She would explain things that we kept in the back of our minds that all that she was saying most Russians still believed in that stuff.
Mabe a pantheon of re-invented pagan Roman gods as higher spirits/angels sitting on a table with Christ in the middle. Everyone symbolizes a virtue.
Marc
Donor
Classical Paganism was dying before Christianity displaced it.
In large part because it was a simplistic, misogynistic, and amoral system that had finally lost its appeal to the urban classes that were being exposed to more sophisticated theologies; and in the countryside the bulk of the population followed local cults that had little to do with Bullfinch's crowd.
Now I've toyed with the notion that a transfiguration might be possible of some of the Greco-Roman deities becoming beneficial spiritual aides, friendly daemons if you will. But that is in the context of a magical world. More real and to the point: Paganism with a capital P was the Dodo of theology.
In large part because it was a simplistic, misogynistic, and amoral system that had finally lost its appeal to the urban classes that were being exposed to more sophisticated theologies; and in the countryside the bulk of the population followed local cults that had little to do with Bullfinch's crowd.
Now I've toyed with the notion that a transfiguration might be possible of some of the Greco-Roman deities becoming beneficial spiritual aides, friendly daemons if you will. But that is in the context of a magical world. More real and to the point: Paganism with a capital P was the Dodo of theology.
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