Christian West Africa

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I have not a single clue about West Africa but the possibilities of West Africa becoming a part of the Christian world fascinates me. I was thinking along the lines of either Christianity being introduced to the Ghana Empire via exiled Donatists or Arian remnants (Gelimer makes a last minute decision to escape Roman custody and heads south with his followers) fleeing orthodox persecution in North Africa. What are the chances of the Ghana Empire or one of its neighbors converting to Christianity, albeit one different from the orthodox version practiced in Rome?

 

[Lalli]

If Islam never develope, there is good changes that Ghana Empire will become Donatist. I don't know could it develope as Arianist.

 

[Chairwoman Roxelana]

I don't think a few exiles could convince Ghana to convert (Even if they could reach West Africa) but you could follow something similar to OTL if North Africa is Christian, where trans-Saharan trade brings Christianity to the region.

 

[St. Just]

Have Islam stop at Egypt or get defeated at Yarmouk- North Africa stays Catholic (Donatism and Arianism were long gone by the time the first Ghana empire started) and Catholic trade + desert monasteries + apostles convert the Sahel to Christianity.

Any remaining pagans get converted by European travel when Euro-Asia trade starts.

 

[Tanc49]

Part of the Christian World, you mean as OTL?

 

[Iori]

Part of the Christian World, you mean as OTL?

That map woefully simplifies the situation and is wrong in several cases; While Islam and Christianity are the predominant religions in most of Africa, they are'nt everywhere and in many cases Christianity in Africa ranges from very different to outright different syncretic religions.

Religiously Africa this is what Africa looks like;

 

[Falecius]

That map woefully simplifies the situation and is wrong in several cases; While Islam and Christianity are the predominant religions in most of Africa, they are'nt everywhere and in many cases Christianity in Africa ranges from very different to outright different syncretic religions.

Religiously Africa this is what Africa looks like;

I am not sure what the "syncretic beliefs" patch in Zimbabwe and Zambia is supposed to represent. I am also pretty sure that Madagascar is not majority Hindu, although I did not bother to check.

 

[Remitonov]

I am not sure what the "syncretic beliefs" patch in Zimbabwe and Zambia is supposed to represent. I am also pretty sure that Madagascar is not majority Hindu, although I did not bother to check.

Madagascar is coloured orange, labelled under indigenous beliefs'. Mauritius is the one highlighted red for Hinduism.

 

['Ezana]

Part of the Christian World, you mean as OTL?

That map really overestimates the Christian parts of West Africa. It's labeled parts of Ghana as Christian that are really Muslim majority, for example. Iori's map is more accurate, although it also doesn't include the significant Muslim population in North Ghana.

 

[Falecius]

Madagascar is coloured orange, labelled under indigenous beliefs'. Mauritius is the one highlighted red for Hinduism.

Oh, fine then. Still wondering about Zambia.

 

[Kalontas]

Part of the Christian World, you mean as OTL?

Even on this oversimplified map, most of Ghana's territory lies in the muslim area. FYI, the old Ghana (the one that is the subject here) was located closer to modern Mali.

 

[Harald Sigurdson II]

Mohammed dies as an infant.

 

[Tanc49]

What about a longer/earlier colonisation? More time to evangelise!

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

The most sure way to make the northern part of west Africa (what became Muslim), is to either butterfly Islam or limit it regionally. Unfortunately the speed at which the conversion would be even slower than Islam (which was quite slow). This would be due to the distance of Ghana(or any of those type of empires from the closest Christian power base (Carthage/Tunis).

The conversion would (like what others hve said) be facilitated by desert fathers, who would fit right in the Sahara. These monks would come from Egypt/Tunis, and become advisors and sources of curiosity for the locals (similar to Buddhism in China).

After that, some King could convert and adopt some of the styles of governing the monks brought with them from Egypt/Tunis. The large portion of the population would remain indigenous in belief, and Christianity would be the religion of the elite and monks. In later times(1200s-1300s), Christianity is more widespread, but most of the population has adopted a syncretic version and are quite unorthodox. The greater world of Christendom would likely be unaware of the unorthodoxy and would hear tales of a glorious christian empire in the middle of the desert, only to be disappointed later (by what they perceive to be a heretical kingdom).

I would assume Donatist would be possible, however in West Africa it is possible that the denomination (Donatist/monk orders) looses its original flavor, submitting to syncretism.

 

[Tanc49]

I just had an idea. The problem with the earlier conversion of Africa is the Sahara barrier, right? But we forget there was a very early Christian kingdom south of the Sahara, the Ethiopian kings, from the 330's!

Could an Ethiopian wank be the solution? Say, after the rise of Islam, they get pushed Inland (As OTL) but end up getting way further inland than IOTL, ending up in West Africa where they can convert more people?

 

[Chairwoman Roxelana]

I just had an idea. The problem with the earlier conversion of Africa is the Sahara barrier, right? But we forget there was a very early Christian kingdom south of the Sahara, the Ethiopian kings, from the 330's!

Could an Ethiopian wank be the solution? Say, after the rise of Islam, they get pushed Inland (As OTL) but end up getting way further inland than IOTL, ending up in West Africa where they can convert more people?

The Ethiopian Highlands seem much more defensible than the flat Sahel, and there is a several thousand mile trek from Mali to Ethiopia. Maybe if North Africa is full of conflict while the Nile remains Christian, the trade routes could go through the Lake Chad region and to the Nile, resulting in a Coptic West Africa.

 

[Tanc49]

The Ethiopian Highlands seem much more defensible than the flat Sahel, and there is a several thousand mile trek from Mali to Ethiopia. Maybe if North Africa is full of conflict while the Nile remains Christian, the trade routes could go through the Lake Chad region and to the Nile, resulting in a Coptic West Africa.

Yeah, the Sahel would probably still be muslim because it is controlled by Touaregs.

It hasn't been defined so far but what's West Africa? Are we talking Namibia/Nigeria or all the way to Senegal?

Even if they don't actually go all the way, if they are further inland, they could impact the trade routes, allowing Christianity to spread

 

[Lampiao]

That map woefully simplifies the situation and is wrong in several cases; While Islam and Christianity are the predominant religions in most of Africa, they are'nt everywhere and in many cases Christianity in Africa ranges from very different to outright different syncretic religions.

Religiously Africa this is what Africa looks like;

Your map also woefully simplifies the African religious context. I'm pretty sure that Zambia and Zimbabwe are at least 70% Christian.

Also, syncretism =/= indigenous belief =/= syncretic religion. Madagascar's religion, for instance, is a type of veneration of ancestors which is also practiced by the local Christians. It doesn't necessarily means that they have an organized syncretic religion per se, like Santería. It's pretty hard to truly define the strength of each practice in this type of society, however, for sure, Chrstianity is the "religion of prestige". It's pretty much the same reality that we find in Shinto/Buddhist Japan or in the Americas with Christians who practice Santería, Voodoo, Candomblé, etc.

I'd say that it's only around in the gulf area we can still find "true" native religions, but it's just a wild guess. Most of the African countries don't have reliable demographic sources anyway...

-

As for the topic, it can be easily achieved in the 19th century: Earlier end of the slave trade and more countries competing for Africa generates a colonial rush (IOTL throughout most of the 19th century the UK and France were the only real players in Africa). Remember that France only invaded Mali in 1883 and Sokoto was only conquered by the British in the beginning of the 20th century. If all West Africa was in European hands by the early 1800s Christians would be an important minority (or even a majority) in the Muslim Sahel by now.

 

[Prism]

If you could keep North Africa and Horn of Africa Christian and not Islamized, then they could influence West Africa into turning Christian. Providing of course, that they resist the Muslim invaders from the Middle East. But yeah, North Africa has heavy influence on West Africa.

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

Your map also woefully simplifies the African religious context. I'm pretty sure that Zambia and Zimbabwe are at least 70% Christian.

Also, syncretism =/= indigenous belief =/= syncretic religion. Madagascar's religion, for instance, is a type of veneration of ancestors which is also practiced by the local Christians. It doesn't necessarily means that they have an organized syncretic religion per se, like Santería. It's pretty hard to truly define the strength of each practice in this type of society, however, for sure, Chrstianity is the "religion of prestige". It's pretty much the same reality that we find in Shinto/Buddhist Japan or in the Americas with Christians who practice Santería, Voodoo, Candomblé, etc.

I'd say that it's only around in the gulf area we can still find "true" native religions, but it's just a wild guess. Most of the African countries don't have reliable demographic sources anyway...

-

As for the topic, it can be easily achieved in the 19th century: Earlier end of the slave trade and more countries competing for Africa generates a colonial rush (IOTL throughout most of the 19th century the UK and France were the only real players in Africa). Remember that France only invaded Mali in 1883 and Sokoto was only conquered by the British in the beginning of the 20th century. If all West Africa was in European hands by the early 1800s Christians would be an important minority (or even a majority) in the Muslim Sahel by now.

That's not very fun. I assume the author would have preferred a earlier conversion rather than just some sort of massive ethnic demographic change( which can be applied anywhere, example: if we just said that half of the population of France moved to Saudi Arabia, Islam would no longer be the dominant religion, even though it is extremely implausible)there is very little reason for Europeans to move to the Sahel.