Christian Lebanon?

[La Rouge Beret]

I am surprised that hasn't been suggested before but what about attracting the pied noir from Algeria? Perhaps inducing them ala the 6 pound pom. Then we could always look at Lebanon slowly absorbing the Christian minorities as they flee from Egypt or Iraq as per OTL. How about the Greek turks perhaps too turk to be readily absorbed within Greece, may find it an easier cultural fit within TTL Lebanon.

As an aside this melting pot of cultural heritages will produce quite a few stunners.

Accordingly, please send all corresponde for LRB to:

C-/Beirut, Lebanon
TTL

 

[The Ubbergeek]

It's however a GOOD reciepe,. knowing how bad they feel toward 'dem arabs' after those events of the war... this could get indeed ethnic cleansy toward muslims remaining. AND jews, for sure - there is an harsh rightwinghood there...


I means, I look at the troubles in France, like that controversy about a mentally ill maghrebian who killed a bus driver in the.. 70s I believe, Marseille.

 

[Wendell]

Excluding the two small southernmost ones the southern portions would actually be part of Syria, and even in the aforementioned ones I could see Israel treating them slightly better as a way of diminishing the power of the Sunni Palestinians leading to the Shi'a remaining.

Err, no. Each of your southern areas would border Israel, including the large one, per this map.

 

[Iori]

It's however a GOOD reciepe,. knowing how bad they feel toward 'dem arabs' after those events of the war... this could get indeed ethnic cleansy toward muslims remaining. AND jews, for sure - there is an harsh rightwinghood there...

With the exception of the Pied-Noirs (who I think the majority of which would simply go back to France) all the groups mentioned ARE Arab; Arabs are not by definition Muslim, and the large majority of indigenous Middle-Eastern Christians are, and consider themselves to be, Arab.

Err, no. Each of your southern areas would border Israel, including the large one, per this map.

Hm, the large part you're correct about, so I suppose a connecting line between it and the near-by area would be needed, that said the northernmost of the southern four borders Syria even today.

 

[La Rouge Beret]

With the exception of the Pied-Noirs (who I think the majority of which would simply go back to France)

Remember a large component of the Pied-Noirs were not ethnically French, but Spanish, Italian and Maltese from memory. That was a point raised in 'A Savage War of Peace.' I still believe you can attract a large percentage of those that decide to emigrate from Algeria.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

With the exception of the Pied-Noirs (who I think the majority of which would simply go back to France) all the groups mentioned ARE Arab; Arabs are not by definition Muslim, and the large majority of indigenous Middle-Eastern Christians are, and consider themselves to be, Arab.




Hm, the large part you're correct about, so I suppose a connecting line between it and the near-by area would be needed, that said the northernmost of the southern four borders Syria even today.

I know, I was talking of Pieds-noirs - but there was an high level of... hot feelings towards maghrebians and surely muslism/arabs in general. See what I means?
This don't change a lot, they would ahem work a lot to see they WILL remains in control and safe. Harsh measures.

 

[Binky the Clown]

I have long wanted to write a timeline about just such a scenario. One thought I had early on was having the French perform population transfers shortly after enlarging Lebanon, with Muslims being replaced by Christians from Syria and Palestine (and vice-versa). Maybe the Treaty of Sevres sets Lebanon aside as a state for Arab Christians, much like how Palestine was reserved for eventual Zionist colonization. There are plenty of Arab Christians who moved to Europe and the Americas - encourage them to settle in Lebanon instead, and you'll be one step closer to a majority Christian Lebanon.

Other possibilities include having Pied-Noirs from Algeria settling in Lebanon, either during Lebanon's time as a French Mandate or after Algeria becomes an independent nation. Hell, try to encourage Europeans in general to move to Lebanon. France could easily attempt to make Lebanon into part of the Métropole - unlike Algeria, Lebanon has a small enough population to make this feasible. France could tempt Spanish and Italian settlers (there were plenty of Spaniards who fled Spain during the Civil War and never returned, while there were thousands of Italians who settled in Libya, Eritrea, and Somalia during the 1920's and 30's) to pave the way for Lebanon's eventual absorption. There were already sizable Spanish and Italian communities in French North Africa (Oran and Tunis, respectively), so this isn't as implausible as it sounds. Any European settlement, however, would be difficult in light of the fact that Lebanon is a League of Nations Mandate, and is therefore being groomed for independence and not assimilation.

Yet another idea I've toyed with is an influx of Jewish refugees from Germany and Austria settling in Lebanon. While this seems counterproductive to the establishment of a majority Christian Lebanon, it would probably alter the demographics just enough for the Christian population of Lebanon to remain dominant. Some 30,000 Austrian and German Jews fled to France in the 1930's - suppose a portion of them are given an incentive to move to Lebanon? After all, many of them are probably doctors and other professionals that would go a long way towards westernizing Lebanon. And that's not even counting all the Jews who fled to other countries like China (20,000), Hungary (3,000), Spain (3,000) and Yugoslavia (7,000).

So, to recap:

• Greater Lebanon is reserved as a land for Arab Christians, complete with population transfers.
• The French encourage settlement in Lebanon in order to cement their control of a strategically located Mediterranean port (Beirut). Pied Noirs from Algeria may or may not settle in Lebanon, depending on the scenario.
• Encouraging European settlement in general (especially from Catholic countries like Spain and Italy).
• Allowing for Jewish refugees from Austria and Germany to settle in Lebanon.

Any one of these things would go a long way towards the establishment of a Christian-majority state in Lebanon.

 

[Wendell]

What if the portions of the country West and North of the Litani River and South of Tripoli became the Independent, largely Christian Lebanon, while the rest was folded into Syria?

 

[Iori]

Remember a large component of the Pied-Noirs were not ethnically French, but Spanish, Italian and Maltese from memory. That was a point raised in 'A Savage War of Peace.' I still believe you can attract a large percentage of those that decide to emigrate from Algeria.

While they were'nt all French, the majority of them went to France (both Metropolitan France and its Territories) while the remainder went elsewhere.

Also, considering where they just fled I really doubt more than a small amount would want to migrate to somewhere where their's going to be a chance they'll go through it again.

I know, I was talking of Pieds-noirs - but there was an high level of... hot feelings towards maghrebians and surely muslism/arabs in general. See what I means?
This don't change a lot, they would ahem work a lot to see they WILL remains in control and safe. Harsh measures.

And if they acted like that they'd never be welcome since 99% of Lebanese are Arab.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

While they were'nt all French, the majority of them went to France (both Metropolitan France and its Territories) while the remainder went elsewhere.

Also, considering where they just fled I really doubt more than a small amount would want to migrate to somewhere where their's going to be a chance they'll go through it again.




And if they acted like that they'd never be welcome since 99% of Lebanese are Arab.

Considering how went the Algerian pre-war time and wartime...
Dark stuff in those days, it was like the Vietnam Prototype...

 

[katchen]

The problem was that in the 1930s, the prevailing opinion amongst just about everyone was that religion was on it's way out and that nation and language (nationalism) was the prevailing organizing factor amongst people. That idea remained prevalent basically until the 1990s or 2000s when religion basically banged everyone in the head and reminded the world that it was still there..
That's why the French in 1936 abandoned a perfectly good division of Syria and listened to Syrian nationalists and deprived the Druse of a country that they needed in Southern Syria's Jabal Druse. And yes, now they need it more than ever.
If you want to have an all Christian Lebanon, give the Druse their state and give Southern Lebanon to them as part of that state, bordering on Israel. Move the Lebanese Shiites up the coast to Hatay, north of the Alawite zone of Syria, instead of giving Hatay to Turkey. Give Hatay and Latakia independence. The Shiites and Alawites are compatible with one another and get along together quite well. It's the Sunnis that neither of them can stand. The Christians get their state in Northern Lebanon and adjacent parts of what had been Syria.
Maybe Sunni Syria gets a small corridor to the sea in the far north of Hatay, since the Christians need to reach the Christian areas west of Hama as part of Christian Lebanon.
That's what a Christian Lebanon looks like. And yes, it includes Beirut.

 

[Binky the Clown]

If you want to have an all Christian Lebanon, give the Druse their state and give Southern Lebanon to them as part of that state, bordering on Israel. Move the Lebanese Shiites up the coast to Hatay, north of the Alawite zone of Syria, instead of giving Hatay to Turkey.

A population transfer could work just as well - just have the French move Syrian Christians and Druze to Lebanon after they expand it. After all, population transfers were considered an "acceptable" solution until the beginning of the Cold War.

 

[Wendell]

The problem was that in the 1930s, the prevailing opinion amongst just about everyone was that religion was on it's way out and that nation and language (nationalism) was the prevailing organizing factor amongst people. That idea remained prevalent basically until the 1990s or 2000s when religion basically banged everyone in the head and reminded the world that it was still there..
That's why the French in 1936 abandoned a perfectly good division of Syria and listened to Syrian nationalists and deprived the Druse of a country that they needed in Southern Syria's Jabal Druse. And yes, now they need it more than ever.
If you want to have an all Christian Lebanon, give the Druse their state and give Southern Lebanon to them as part of that state, bordering on Israel. Move the Lebanese Shiites up the coast to Hatay, north of the Alawite zone of Syria, instead of giving Hatay to Turkey. Give Hatay and Latakia independence. The Shiites and Alawites are compatible with one another and get along together quite well. It's the Sunnis that neither of them can stand. The Christians get their state in Northern Lebanon and adjacent parts of what had been Syria.
Maybe Sunni Syria gets a small corridor to the sea in the far north of Hatay, since the Christians need to reach the Christian areas west of Hama as part of Christian Lebanon.
That's what a Christian Lebanon looks like. And yes, it includes Beirut.

Those are ASB levels of population transfer.

 

[Zealot]

1. Syriac Catholic Church splits from Syriac Ortodox Church, but keeping a bigger number of adherents and hierarchs than OTL, with French backing

2. France endorses a merger between Lebanese Maronite church and TTL Syriac catholic church, into Uniate Syriac Churc of the Levant

3. After establishment of Autonomous Mount Lebanon, some Uniate Syriacs start to move in. Some French-educated intellectuals in Beirut start to develop ideas about separate Lebanese identity , Assyrian ancestry, and begin promoting the Revival of Western Neo-Aramaic as vernacular tongue.

4. This trend is strongly supported and accelerated by the French Mandate after WWI, resulting in population transfers à la Laussanne Treaty.

5. In the end, you get more Christian, pro-Western Lebanon, less identified with the neighboring Arab States, with a more distinct national character, and openly hostile to Pan-Arabism. The perfect Near East outpost for the Western Powers…. Hence, who does really need Israel in TTL?

 

[Rich Rostrom]

Eitheir you redraw the frontiers of Lebanon, or.. ethnic cleansings of muslims. /QUOTE]

Or, possibly, "ethnic cleansing" of Christians in Syria, driving them into Lebanon.

 

[ramones1986]

3. After establishment of Autonomous Mount Lebanon, some Uniate Syriacs start to move in. Some French-educated intellectuals in Beirut start to develop ideas about separate Lebanese identity , Assyrian ancestry, and begin promoting the Revival of Western Neo-Aramaic as vernacular tongue.

Reviving Aramaic in a Christian-majority Lebanon is possible, but I think the intellectuals will emphasize on the Phoenician ancestry of the Lebanese.

 

[ramones1986]

By the way, what kind of government will be set up in a Christian-dominated Lebanon?

 

[The Ubbergeek]

By the way, what kind of government will be set up in a Christian-dominated Lebanon?

Honestly, it could turns like an 'oriental francoism'...

 

[Wendell]

By the way, what kind of government will be set up in a Christian-dominated Lebanon?

It could be Falangist, liberal, or something in between.

 

[Mirza Khan]

-Make the Litani river the Lebanon-Israel border (some of the more hardcore Zionists demanded this IOTL), and give the Bekaa valley plus Tripoli and everything north to Syria. Pretty much all of these areas are Muslim (the Tripoli area has some Orthodox, but I think Sunnis outnumber them).

-Avoid the Civil War. It led to a lot of emigration, and emigrants tended to be predominantly Christian (both because Christians tended to be wealthier and thus in a better position to leave, and because they were better able to integrate into Western countries).

-Have Lebanon fall to the WWI allies much earlier than it actually did, and the Ottomans consequently be even more unpleasant to the Christian minorities in Anatolia, and extend this unpleasantness to Christians in Iraq as well. Thus, during and immediately after WWI, a lot of Armenians and Aramaic and Arabic speaking Christians flee to Lebanon, boosting the Christian population.

-For a pre-1900 POD, have the unpleasantness of 1860 result in Lebanon becoming a French protectorate. Not sure how this would happen, but, if the French are running Lebanon as a full-blown colony, they're likely to encourage European settlement and "encourage" some of the Muslim population to leave. Even if Lebanon is its OTL size, by 1930's it could have Christians as a comfortable majority.