Christian Communism

I cannot think of any communist nation that has a vibrant, open religious community, and certainly not one with religious freedom. However, I may be wrong, as I said I do not know it all.

Chile (briefly) under Salvadore Allende.

Johnrankins said:
Which means it winds up where I said it would. Why are you arguing about it then? :confused:

Because "statist" translates to "Do not take me seriously, because I am a Libertarian, and therefore do not understand why government coercion is a necessary and proper thing."
 
Well, we *are* talking about Communism as the nationalization of the factors of production and the collectivization of agriculture and society, yes? Allende *was* a Marxist. He may not have been a Leninist or Stalinist, but you don't need to be one of those to be Communist...
 
Hugo Chavez often speaks of creating the Kingdom of God on Earth and uses rhetoric more similar to a fiery pastor than a head of state.
 
Well, we *are* talking about Communism as the nationalization of the factors of production and the collectivization of agriculture and society, yes? Allende *was* a Marxist. He may not have been a Leninist or Stalinist, but you don't need to be one of those to be Communist...

Communism is not just one or two of them. It's deeper and more complex. Socialist he was, yes. Communist,. maybe not.
 
Chile (briefly) under Salvadore Allende.



Because "statist" translates to "Do not take me seriously, because I am a Libertarian, and therefore do not understand why government coercion is a necessary and proper thing."

1) It was originally Ubergeek and not me who used the phrase Statist Communism.
2) There are degrees of government coercion. Does a government need taxes, have a military and some degree of financial regulation? Yes Does the government need to try and control the entire economy using five year plans and gulags? No You wind up with the latter in Communist countries.
 
More socialist, left-wing Christianity? Possible, and hell yeah.
Communist Christianity? Impossible, and hell no.

Marxist Christianity is impossible, but not Communist Christianity. After all, you did have this, and it still enjoys popularity in some quarters. The more savvy Latin American Leftists, for example, have made major efforts to claim Christ as one of their own.
 
Marxist Christianity is impossible, but not Communist Christianity. After all, you did have this, and it still enjoys popularity in some quarters. The more savvy Latin American Leftists, for example, have made major efforts to claim Christ as one of their own.


It can but it will wind up as some sort of theocratic police state.
 
Mussolini IS a possibility here.
Fervent socialist revolutionary before 1915, personally anty-clergy, but political animal enough to understand that you do not stay in power in Italy whitout a compromise with the church (as he actually did in 1929).
The obvious POD could be the Red Week of 1912 (or it was 1913?) where he was not so far from sucess in northern Italy, exploiting general discontent for the government, for the war in Lybia, and general misery.
from my Red Mussolini thread:
What if he managed to do it?
my opinion is that europe would not felt threaten as per Russian bolshevick revolution (as nobody cared very much of italy), but the interesting point is another: this would be the first socialist revolution in europe, and would shape the way other european countries perceive the concept of "socialist country".
italian revolutionaries had not the stiffness of russian bolshevick, the horror of great war had not hardened the souls of half europe and a general trust on the goodness of mankind was quite diffused.
That, along with general lazy attitude (I'm italian so do not push me on it) would mitigate the harsh points of revolution, and europe would perceive "socialist revolution" in a whole different way, somehow more familiar (influence of social-christian view) an a lot less threatening.
this would not be perceived by europe as an "alien culture" neither as a "threatening danger".
A more morbid example of socialism would have not induced the "Red fear" in europe (nor in america).
Also, supposing some more "seroius" revolution happen (Soviet Union), the precedent would influence the development of communism on a more compromising trail.
 
Then what does Communism even <i>mean</i>?
There are plenty of definitions of communism. The Marxist definition excludes what is often called "Communism" in the West, for instance. The latter is most accurately described as Stalinism, since it departed greatly even from Leninism and Bolshevism, becoming almost the opposite of original Marxism. (Some authors prefer to refer to Marx's ideas as "MarxIAN" rather than "MarxIST", since the latter is widely taken to denote a quite different set of ideas).

The basic principles that one might consider "communistic" might be

1. Genuine egalitarianism; hence, not just fictitious nominal legal equality but some degree of economic equality, eliminating the ability of individuals to amass unearned wealth and undue power.

2. Community control of the major elements of production, and of the distribution of, at least, necessities of life.

3. As an adjunct, the communist society will have limited tolerance for disruptive individualism.

These factors work together; you cannot have real community control if a few individuals exercise the real power, and you cannot have a fair distribution of wealth and power without community control.

Many tribal societies may be seen as communistic. The chief and the medicine man may be more influential, but they have very limited means to persuade the tribe to do anything it doesn't really want. There is very little surplus wealth, so accumulation is not a problem. The tribe's way of life and productive roles are well established and cooperative; no one goes against the group consensus because they can't survive unless they stay with the tribe and cooperate. No one is willing to let his neighbor starve to death because every tribe member is needed, and besides they all know each other well.

Larger and wealthier groups do not fair so well with communism, for obvious reasons. The only ones I know of that have succeeded to any degree relied on strong religious conformity (see principle 3), although secular ideologies have been proposed as a substitute. In any case, the larger and richer a communist society is, the harder it needs to fight for conformity.
 
I am writing a story set in the reform era of a Christian Commonwealth. The idea is that it is based on religious values, and enforced equality. So you have two structures which work together namely the State Church, and the State.
 
Top