Let’s say that constantine does not convert and Rome remains pagan for hundreds more years.
Does being Christian help Armenia?
Does being Christian help Armenia?
Constantine's conversion is overstated in its making of conversion inevitable. For one thing the general demographic reasons for conversion would remain, regardless of his conversion, also is there any particular reason he doesnt convert, considering his Mother was Christian, along with his Sister, and several others, in his immediate family. These people could still have the effect of legalising Christianity, and patronising at Court.Let’s say that constantine does not convert and Rome remains pagan for hundreds more years.
Constantine's conversion is overstated in its making of conversion inevitable. For one thing the general demographic reasons for conversion would remain, regardless of his conversion, also is there any particular reason he doesnt convert, considering his Mother was Christian, along with his Sister, and several others, in his immediate family. These people could still have the effect of legalising Christianity, and patronising at Court.
On Armenia, what do you mean by "help", Armenia is and was backwards, mountainous and poor, none of this will change.
Good points about Constantine, I guess the empire staying pagan due to some sort of reform movement like Julian the apostates which creates an institution that. Can resist Christianisation, there was a recent thread about it. It doesent even need to be rome in general just the elites and the state religion.
But your point that Armenia is and was backwards and poor seems a bit unsound.
To say that Armenia is destined since the 4th century to be poor is pretty ridiculous. In the last hundred years along its experienced a massive genocide, communist repression and an economic blockade from turkey.
Constantine's conversion is overstated in its making of conversion inevitable. For one thing the general demographic reasons for conversion would remain..
Yeah, the 5% to 10% that was Christian was really important in demographic terms. But if we were to go into it I'm sure you'd quote something like 20-30% and we both would think the other is absurd.
Assuming Armenia is Christian and without any close other country converting, if it isn't overwhelmed by Persia or Rome or Nomads
The Numbers, I usually see is 7%-10%. But no what I mean by Demographic reasons is the reasons why people converted, which is in part related to demography. The clearest example of this is Women, and female infanticide. Christianity is, despite the protestations of modern feminists, far more Liberal and progressive than the paganism before it, specifically with regards to women. This is shown with the application of Death penalty to male adulterers, by the Byzantines, at times, and the total prohibition on abortion, and infanticide, which while continuing to occur raised the status of women, similar to Islam compared to Semitic paganism. This meant that the majority of converts were, and in many places continue to be, Women. This is shown with Constantine's Mother, or any Major Bishop of this period, who would have been born to a Christian couple, or a Christian mother, and rarely a pagan father. Other time this could have caused a shift in society, irregardless of Constantine.
As for your actual assertion, I'm more skeptical. Assuming the next century and a half goes with Emperors who vary from active persecutors to ones who ignore Christianity, I see half the children of Christians, particularly the aristocratic ones who wish to Rise and who have close pagan relatives, being pulled into the mainstream through marriage, weak faith in times of percecution (the second generation is always less devout), simply thinking their Mum is a bit of a wackjob (they way kid with parent with new agey parents might feel PD), maybe there's a conservative wave culturally in the face of German invasions or a hundred different reasons. Yeah, better womens standing has an attraction. So does marrying a rich husband who loves you. So does having a higher standing by particpating in the mainstream of society
numbers of Christians rising to 15% by 450, but then an atl version of the German invasions happen, the Persians start pushing Zoroastrianism or whatever butterflies I haven't thought of happen and the chess board where Christianity was gaining is knocked over by a hundred other trends as Mars-Woden becomes the central cult of the Frankish Kingdom you suddenly find yourself living in, and the window of opportunity to make Christianity the dominant force in whatever civilization you are now apart of is gone.
As for your actual assertion, I'm more skeptical. Assuming the next century and a half goes with Emperors who vary from active persecutors to ones who ignore Christianity, I see half the children of Christians, particularly the aristocratic ones who wish to Rise and who have close pagan relatives, being pulled into the mainstream through marriage, weak faith in times of percecution (the second generation is always less devout), simply thinking their Mum is a bit of a wackjob (they way kid with parent with new agey parents might feel PD), maybe there's a conservative wave culturally in the face of German invasions or a hundred different reasons. Yeah, better womens standing has an attraction. So does marrying a rich husband who loves you. So does having a higher standing by particpating in the mainstream of society.
Basically, you have a wave. Not a tidal wave. You have the numbers of Christians rising to 15% by 450, but then an atl version of the German invasions happen, the Persians start pushing Zoroastrianism or whatever butterflies I haven't thought of happen and the chess board where Christianity was gaining is knocked over by a hundred other trends as Mars-Woden becomes the central cult of the Frankish Kingdom you suddenly find yourself living in, and the window of opportunity to make Christianity the dominant force in whatever civilization you are now apart of is gone.
Weren't most of the Germanic invaders, at least at the elite level, Arian Christians as opposed to pagans by that point?
Weren't most of the Germanic invaders, at least at the elite level, Arian Christians as opposed to pagans by that point?
All except for the Franks, however the Franks had a large Christian part to them.
Where inter religious couples common in the Roman Empire?The Numbers, I usually see is 7%-10%. But no what I mean by Demographic reasons is the reasons why people converted, which is in part related to demography. The clearest example of this is Women, and female infanticide. Christianity is, despite the protestations of modern feminists, far more Liberal and progressive than the paganism before it, specifically with regards to women. This is shown with the application of Death penalty to male adulterers, by the Byzantines, at times, and the total prohibition on abortion, and infanticide, which while continuing to occur raised the status of women, similar to Islam compared to Semitic paganism. This meant that the majority of converts were, and in many places continue to be, Women. This is shown with Constantine's Mother, or any Major Bishop of this period, who would have been born to a Christian couple, or a Christian mother, and rarely a pagan father. Other time this could have caused a shift in society, irregardless of Constantine.
Yeah, the 5% to 10% that was Christian was really important in demographic terms. But if we were to go into it I'm sure you'd quote something like 20-30% and we both would think the other is absurd.
Uhh, what part of a hypothetical PoD in 300s that butterflies Christian dominance like 99.9% of the time also prevents Arianism among the Germans as well isn't kinda so obvious it just goes without saying?
Where inter religious couples common in the Roman Empire?
Not Ethiopia, Ethiopia was re-evangelized during Athanasius' time (mid fourth century), so it was not a royally patronized religion, that's for sure.Not really, the Armenia adopted Christianity before Rome, same with Eithopia, there is no reason they same can't happen with the Germans.
Not Ethiopia, Ethiopia was re-evangelized during Athanasius' time (mid fourth century), so it was not a royally patronized religion, that's for sure.
St Matthew allegedly preached there, but it appears their merchant class was Christian which is why established communities took some time to develop. It was not rare for nomads and merchants to worship once a year, usually a shortened lent and pascha (Easter). They probably left Ethiopia for Alexandria for that time.True the point still stands with Armenia, and likely Ethiopia still had Christians.
Also a Christian Axum would come along second. Than there are two Christian entities in contrast to a pagan Roman Empire.Let’s say that constantine does not convert and Rome remains pagan for hundreds more years.
Does being Christian help Armenia?