Chinese settlers in western America?

What if China had "discovered" America from the West around the time the Europeans "discovered" it from the East, and had begun settling the western seaboard at around the same time that European settlers began arriving along the eastern seaboard? What would north America look like today?
 
I'm not sure China would have the same economical and demographical incitative than Europeans to control and settle America. Not only western America provides less directly interesting and accessible ressources, but the navigation is longer and harder to begin with, making the first waves more espaced.

Eventually, a settlement isn't unthinlable of course, but China as a political ensemble was really about maintaining the status quo as long it was possible. The "gold lust" that really played for Europeans wouldn't as much for Chinese, by exemple.

So, in the eventualty of a settlement, I would see more likely trading posts at first.
 
China's focus on foreign trade and diplomacy (such as there was) seemed to be on SE Asia and the Indian Ocean. Getting them here in the first place would be a real problem.

If anyone is going to be making Contact in the Pacific Northwest, it'd probably be the Japanese. Maybe if the Japanese get there and word reaches the Chinese during the period the Ming had giant fleets trading abroad, I could imagine the Chinese potentially taking an interest.
 
What if China had "discovered" America from the West around the time the Europeans "discovered" it from the East, and had begun settling the western seaboard at around the same time that European settlers began arriving along the eastern seaboard? What would north America look like today?

The question is why would China do this? AFAIK there were Chinese emperors that were interested in sailing around Africa for example, but at the time the prospect of spending huge amounts of money was as ridiculous as sending a manned mission to the moon today. Chinese rulers had more pressing issues with potential invaders from their northern and western borders. Plus, China was very prosperous and had no motivation to colonize other lands.

The situation was very different for Europeans because the Portuguese were in control of all the important trade routes.
 
Really you are looking at the Ming Treasure Fleets as the only chance and I actually think that could have happened.

If the Ming had listened to their Muslim Advisors they would have opened up a few trade ports. Even 1 or two trade ports would have created such a huge financial surplus that the Ming could have kept the treasure fleets going. A fleet could have made it across the Pacific and discovered South America. Up the coast to Western America could have subsequently been attained.

For motivation keep in mind that the Emperor had told Zheng He to journey to the four winds and master all the worlds oceans.

As for settlers I could see convicts, monks or yellow turbans (muslims) being given orders to settle. But the best option is a crashed ship. Several scout fleets 8-10 ships disappeared from the main treasure fleet and never returned. If one of these had washed up on the California Coast who knows what might have happened? The Chinese fleet also had ships full of prostitues so a long term colony could have developed by accident...this gives me an idea for a TL
 
Any small settlement, such as from a few ships that went astray, is likely to become assimilated fairly quickly or at most create some sort of syncretic culture. Even if there are some women aboard a ship, they will be really outnumbered by the men so you are going to have the "castaways" taking up with Native American women. Absent fairly regular contact with China (or Japan) they will be absorbed if they have good relations with the locals or wiped out if not.

The Chinese would want furs (Pacific NW & Alaska). Since China was on a silver not gold standard, and since the silver deposits in Nevada were separated from the coast by some serious mountains, that sort of drive won't be there. China still has plenty of room for population growth &/or remote spots to ship dissidents without the hassle of sending them across the Pacific.
 
Yes, but China WAS trading across Pacific, despite the costs... on Manila galleons.
So what if in the 1570s, after the Spaniards discover the route, the existence of trade and shipbuilding techniques, the Chinese take over? Build some Manila galleons and the next thing is, a Chinese fortress on Golden Gate, governor appointed from Beijing, guns, peasant settlement... and Mexico can trade with that.
 
As you said, they trade via Spaniards. Mexico was far, the big fleets traditions had vanished, and China had others problems to deal with.

Basically, if Spain couldn't spare the Pacific Trade, China could do so without real harm. It's not they didn't knew the techniques and even after the destructions of fleets, the Chinese state/civilisation was brillant and ressourceful enough to have put itself in again.

They didn't made it OTL because they weren't interested both for geopolitical and societal reasons : to resume it greatly, the rise of an important merchant class that was relativly ill-considered would have jeopardized social relations too much for their likes. Generally, China made the choice of stability that played rather well before Opium Wars and europeans raids (in lack of a more fitting word).
 
Okay, I can see all the reasons why it didn't happen (though of course the fact that a thing didn't happen doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened). But what interests me is how things might have happened if it did happen. How might things have panned out if a sufficiently large number of Chinese colonisers- a critical mass, sufficient to overcome the material hardship and fight off attacks from Native Americans - had settled on the west coast and gradually expanded eastwards? And perhaps encountered the European settlers heading westwards.
Any ideas?
 
The only draw for the region would be focused in the Pacific Northwest, private enterprises plying local natural resources (Lumber, Salmon, Gold, Fur). It wouldn't be a huge blip but possibly a Emperor may take enough interest personally to declare it a Captaincy or exile the Merchants. I would say Japanese migrants would probably be the ones with most to gain over Chinese ones.

Though a far more interest scenario would involve the Spanish deporting the Chinese immigrants to Manila to California or at least the converts.
 
I think it would be a lot more like a castaway society rather than a commercial colony. The travel times involved are enormous.
 
Really you are looking at the Ming Treasure Fleets as the only chance and I actually think that could have happened.

If the Ming had listened to their Muslim Advisors they would have opened up a few trade ports. Even 1 or two trade ports would have created such a huge financial surplus that the Ming could have kept the treasure fleets going. A fleet could have made it across the Pacific and discovered South America. Up the coast to Western America could have subsequently been attained.

For motivation keep in mind that the Emperor had told Zheng He to journey to the four winds and master all the worlds oceans.

As for settlers I could see convicts, monks or yellow turbans (muslims) being given orders to settle. But the best option is a crashed ship. Several scout fleets 8-10 ships disappeared from the main treasure fleet and never returned. If one of these had washed up on the California Coast who knows what might have happened? The Chinese fleet also had ships full of prostitues so a long term colony could have developed by accident...this gives me an idea for a TL

I also agree with you that it is definitely possible.

Rather than only one ship; why not make it on a larger scale ? Something like most of Zheng He's ships got stranded in western America due to a fierce storm along the way. And how about making the discovery of gold around this area earlier ?
 
maybe a bunch of fishers getrs blown by a storm all the way to hawaii, then they make it back and the empire decides that having that island is worth something, from there on it's just a question of time until some more fishers get stranded in north america.
 
Whenever this topic comes up, I always want to ask people "go, look at a map." The Pacific is HUGE. Much bigger than the Atlantic. Seriously, it's not even close.

And while the South Pacific has tons of little islands (none of which would be worth the time of any Chinese emperor), they trail off to empty ocean well before you get close to America. Hawaii, in particular, is isolated, and generally useless before the introduction of steamships.

Note that it took decades for the Spanish, after the success of Magellan's expedition, to discover a repeatable route for reliably crossing the Pacific, and even that was extremely dangerous. That was with strong motivation (the Spanish knew that China and the Spice Islands were on the other side), here your hypothetical Chinese will need to be willing to make these dangerous expeditions without knowing that there's anything of interest on the other side).

That's without getting into discussions of currents, winds, Chinese culture, technological capabilities of the ships, etc.
 
I have a realistic scenario to get Chinese Settlers in western America.

First, you'd have to have that section of America colonized by a European power, either directly or through a European colony that gains independence-that's just much more likely than the Chinese colonizing it.

However, then you can create the conditions for Chinese settlement. Have China undergo political and economic instability while the population grows. Simultaneously, have the need for infrastructure and general economic development in western America increase extremely rapidly-perhaps a gold rush, combined with the desire for large public works projects like a rail system.

Then, have Chinese immigrants come to western America. They can be hired or indentured into working on railroads, or seek gold. The Chinese could set themselves up as 'middleman minorities', providing shops and services to the growing European presence in western America, giving their community the wealth necessary to bring more of their own relatives over.

Of course, realistically you will have backlash against non-European immigrants, perhaps resulting in violence, immigration restrictions, or some sort of legal exclusion of Chinese settlers. But they will be there.
 
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