Chinese Rites continued: The Triumph of Jesuit Catholicism

http://books.google.com/books?id=hT...3nxTpLKMqxwn2FKWsqNBwxPb93mQ&q=kongo#PPA33,M1

So Catholicism had made significant strides from the 15th (baptism of Kongo's King) to the 17th (Chinese Rite gains popularity in China) centuries. In 1704 the Vatican ruled against the compromises the Jesuits had made in order to bring Catholicism to China. The move against the Chinese Rites was followed by a general attempt to bring the other non-European churches (India and Kongo) into closer conformity with Rome. The result was a loss of the gains that Catholicism had made in the Kongo and China.

Now if the move is not made against the Jesuits' Chinese Rites, would the advance of Catholicism in Kongo and China continue? I think that the Jesuits might be able to gain more converts in China, but if the Church continues to grow, it will eventually have to reckon with an Imperial bureaucracy that will probably end up viewing it as a hostile force. If the Church gets popular enough though, it could end up too big to be cracked down on, and perhaps provide the Manchu Emperors a potential powerbase among the Han.

In Kongo, if the Church is able to continue, then it might have far ranging and positive effects. The Catholic Church's hierarchy is geared toward social order, which in Kongo's case is going to mean orderly succession and a unitary state. After all, how can the Church properly influence government if the country is in chaos?
 
I think the prospects of converting the bulk of China to Christianity was unrealistic from the start. In fact mass conversion of this type were exceptions, for example in the Americas and the Philippines. In the former, the native population were basically replaced by mixed race population. In the latter, it was the result of centuries of Spanish rule over a culturally undeveloped people. Notable conversion failures are China, India, and Japan. In the above link you can find what I had to say about the Rites Controversy in the other thread.

It was indeed possible that China and Rome didn't have to have a breakdown at the time. It's a little known fact that just before the Papal ruling, the Jesuits had a last ditch plan to send a Chinese Catholic to Rome to be ordained. The whole idea was to score a propaganda win by showcasing a proper Chinese Christian (with all his ancestor rites oddities) around Rome.

This fellow, by the name of Arcadio Huang, decided at the last minute he didn't want to be a priest after all and went to work for Louis XIV. This failed stunt didn't put the Jesuit case in the best light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcadio_Huang
 
Prior to Arcadio Huang, another Chinese Christian by the name of Michael Alphonsius Shen Fu-Tsung had visited Europe and was received by Louis XIV and James II. He was apparently quite a hit with the intelligentsia.

Michael Shen travelled to Europe with another Chinese convert, whose name has been lost to history, along with their Jesuit missionary in China, father Philippe Couplet. After spending some years in Europe they planned to return to China but both Shen and Couplet died on the way.

Decades later Acradio Huang would also die in Europe, never to see his homeland again. It's hard to gauge the impact of these unfortunate events. It's like asking what if Marco Polo died in China?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shen_Fu-Tsung
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Couplet
 
I do not think mass conversion would happen at all. But huge impact does not necessarily stem from mass conversion. Suppose 3% of the total population were converted to Catholicism. These people would be more open to foreign ideas, and might become a bridge between Chinese and Western civilizations. The stagnation occured in OTL Qing might be effectively alleviated, and China would probably be very different.
 
I do not think mass conversion would happen at all. But huge impact does not necessarily stem from mass conversion. Suppose 3% of the total population were converted to Catholicism. These people would be more open to foreign ideas, and might become a bridge between Chinese and Western civilizations. The stagnation occured in OTL Qing might be effectively alleviated, and China would probably be very different.

So you see these Catholic Chinese as potentially creating some kind of economic elite? The Chinese Catholic community creates ties with Europe, and is generally more willing to accept western technological imports. Also, they are favored by the Jesuit technical schools that arise in the (ATL) 18th century*, giving them special access to the Imperial court. The technical edge (and economic benefits that come with it) will end up making Catholic Chinese massively overrepresented in the capitalist class that brings the Industrial Revolution to China.

The continued presence of Catholic missionaries could also fuel Protestant missionary activity. Protestantism isn't connected with theoretical submission to the Vatican, so if it could get into China then it might avoid being cracked down on, even if Catholicism eventually is. The compromises that the Jesuits made in order to gain more converts might be copied by the Protestants, so in the case of a crack-down on Catholics, the Chinese Christians simply switch churches. Since this POD won't derail the rise of the UK, the above scenario also applies. With a potentially larger Christian Chinese population, this population might be more trusted by the European powers, and end up as the main collaborator population if China follows its OTL failure vis a vis the West.
 
The fascinating thing about Kongo is how converting to Christianity allowed them to form links with Europe, and be better regarded. I'd believe that African nations that converted to the Abrahamic religions ended up better off pre-colonial times because they were considered to be better civilized by the inhabitants of Europe and the Maghreb. So it'd be interesting to see what other nations could have been successfully converted (in large part) to Jesuit Catholicism.
 
The fascinating thing about Kongo is how converting to Christianity allowed them to form links with Europe, and be better regarded. I'd believe that African nations that converted to the Abrahamic religions ended up better off pre-colonial times because they were considered to be better civilized by the inhabitants of Europe and the Maghreb. So it'd be interesting to see what other nations could have been successfully converted (in large part) to Jesuit Catholicism.


If mostly successful, then Wolof (IIRC in Senegal and the Gambia), Cambodia, Ethiopia, and Japan could be converted. There were attempts in all of them IOTL. Come to think of it, Wolof was before the Jesuits were formed. Oh well.

Also, if the Spanish / Portuguese were to arrive in Indonesia before the 1500s, maybe something interesting could happen about Catholicism and the declining Majapahits...
 
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