Chinese Ming Empire in 1911

This is the setting were Chinese Ming Empire discovered North and South America, and there gold that went into the Hapsburg Spanish Empire in our world went into Ming count instead, so there Naval ships are Steam and Sail.

Imperial Japan has Ironclads but in 1905 Imperial Russia defeated them with all metal Naval ships.


In 1911 Ming America Imperial Naval fleet of Holy Roman Empire will steam into the bay and open it for trade.


I need help with this setting,


LW
 
Would the Chinese fleet leaving China proper for Spain or the Americas be impossible? Even under Zheng He, this is extremely unlikely, if possible.
 
What motivation would the Ming have to cross all the way over the largest ocean in the world? They already had a wealth of gold flowing in for their goods from Europe and the Middle East, and they had a massive domestic market which meant they didn't need to go out and find foreign consumers. I don't think it'd be impossible by any means, but it'd require a number of specific conditions. Remember that the Europeans only bothered to begin their age of exploration to find alternate routes to India and China, what would the Chinese be looking for?

I'm also not so sure Japan would still become a power of its own, especially with a stronger China right next door. Remember the islands were more backwards and isolated for large parts of their history, and being successfully unified (and staying that way) is far from guaranteed. With a powerful Chinese naval power I could easily see the state(s) there being vassalized and forced to pay tribute to the west.
 
Even under Zheng He, this is extremely unlikely, if possible.

You mean especially under Zheng He. His mission was more similar to Teddy Roosevelt's Great White Fleet. That is, it was intended to assert Chinese dominance in a region that the Chinese had already frequented for centuries. People talk about Zheng He reaching Africa. Those people don't mention, or don't know, that the Song established ties with the Fatimids in 1008 or correspondences between the Swahili Coast and China centuries before Zheng, or that there are pre-Zheng Chinese maps relatively accurately portraying the northward curve of the western coast of South Africa. Zheng He's mission was never exploration and he had no reason whatsoever to go beyond the known with that cumbersome fleet.

Sources:

A History of Overseas Chinese in Africa to 1911
A Shorter History of Science and Civilisation in China
 
Well officially we don't the facts about the Chinese Treasure Fleets, were they stopped and who they made treaties with.


But my point in this there are actions in History like the Russian-Japanese War in 1905 it could have happened the other way.


My point in in 1911 Imperial Ming China has just discovered there the Sick Man of the world.

Holy Roman Empire under the Hapsburgs was much like Imperila China, alot of rules and regulations.


LW
 
Well officially we don't the facts about the Chinese Treasure Fleets, were they stopped and who they made treaties with.


But my point in this there are actions in History like the Russian-Japanese War in 1905 it could have happened the other way.


My point in in 1911 Imperial Ming China has just discovered there the Sick Man of the world.

Holy Roman Empire under the Hapsburgs was much like Imperila China, alot of rules and regulations.


LW
We do know. The treasure fleets cost too much, didn't bring in enough profit, and were headed by eunuchs that the regular bureaucracy disliked.

Personally I think it's within the realm of possibility for the Ming treasure fleets to expand China's presence in Southeast Asia, at most. However, the Ming treasure fleets were never meant for exploring unknown lands.
 
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