Chinese Meiji

How can we make china pull a Meiji that will
Give it the same industry as the USA
Befor world war 2
The pod must be as late as possible
 
How can we make china pull a Meiji that will
Give it the same industry as the USA
Befor world war 2
The pod must be as late as possible

Check Onkell Willie timeline about china..that have the most late POD so far(Hundred days reform)

Again a big problem for a Meiji one.. besided the power of the reactionaries in chinas... are the Unequal Treaties, who make a lot of restricition in Economical Policy for china(like Tariff to protect the industry)

Again is easy.. sincr the aftermatch of either Opuim war(best after the first but most realistic after the second one). the chinesse aristocracy understood than they have to be in the same level than the 'ghost barbarian' to avoid another humillation
 
This is commonly asked.

China did try.
It even worked a bit.
China though is big, even today amidst its big modernisation drive there remain backwards regions of it. Its hard to see the country pulling a meiji.
Maybe...if you split off a Shanghai area republic or somesuch?
 
I'd say the only way to pull it off was to keep the Ming on the throne. Of course, back during the Ming Dynasty, China was more advanced than Europe, so they might not need to restore anything.
 
If you keep the reforming impetus from after the Sino-French War you have a good chance. The problem is more one of internal politics, especially at a dynastic level, in this period

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The Ming was every bit as stagnating as the Qing at the end.

Ehh. Yes and no. The Ming were just really broke, it wasn't quite the same level of complete delusion as with the later Qing. Firearms technology and the use of armed infantry continued to be slowly developed and refined during the Ming age, this was reversed and nerfed during the Qing. And as much as people hate the Ming for banning ocean voyages after Zheng He, at least they didn't order an evacuation and ravaging of the coastal regions like the Ming.

That said, you don't need a Ming survival to pull off a Chinese Meiji, in fact I doubt that would even count as a Meiji. Some internal political PoD with the Qing should do it. Hell, you get a later Qing Peter the Great, then problem is solved.
 
Well our timelines Self-Strengthening Movement seem like a pretty good starting point. Perhaps the Empress Dowager Cixi chokes to death on a fish bone or has some sort of accident and dies early, Prince Gong and his supporters in the reformist faction seize the opportunity to cement their control and China carries on its reforms? It's not going to make things better over night but over the long term it puts them on a firm footing and then developing nicely.
 
Can you spin off the Sino-Japanese War (1895)? They get U.S. mediation on a treaty (instead of Dreibund) & heavy U.S. investment. The Manchus crash sooner. ROC is founded sooner. ROC comes to Japan's aid in Russo-Japanese War?
 
Well our timelines Self-Strengthening Movement seem like a pretty good starting point. Perhaps the Empress Dowager Cixi chokes to death on a fish bone or has some sort of accident and dies early, Prince Gong and his supporters in the reformist faction seize the opportunity to cement their control and China carries on its reforms? It's not going to make things better over night but over the long term it puts them on a firm footing and then developing nicely.

Well you could circumcise her completely by getting the normal order of succession so her suggestion, the Guangzou (I'm crap at modern Chinese spelling) emperor doesn't get the throne, rather the preferred choice in accordance with normal procedure did.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The Tongzhi Emperor? Perfect. The question then becomes if he sides with the reformers and allows the self-strengthening movement the freedom to carry on moving forward what does China look like? Could they reform enough to beat Japan in the Sino-Japanese War or at least fight them to a draw? That's going to have some major knock-ons if possible.
 
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