Chinese influence on the Indochina Peninsula

How can China extend its influence the Indochina peninsula other than Nanyue (Vietnam). There was the kingdom of Funan and the Burmese City States. If China conquered these areas, would China spread its civilization there or would it be difficult? Would the writing systems and architecture be Chinese influenced. Would the language change? Would this prevent the incursion of Indian culture after the 5th Century AD and prevent India's influence? Would these areas become independent at any point soon? Another part is, if these areas were directly influenced instead of conquered, would the same thing happened? What is the best way to have Chinese civilization in Indochina, through conquest or influence?
 
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1. Logistics is hard because they have to send troops from Beijing to Southeast Asia.
2. Why would they want direct control or influence when they already send tributes.
 
1. Logistics is hard because they have to send troops from Beijing to Southeast Asia.
2. Why would they want direct control or influence when they already send tributes.

Technically, Luoyang or Chang'an was the capital of the Han Dynasty which is at the center of the country. Secondly, If they already extended their influence to Nanyue, it is possible to control Funan as well. They can also have a land invasion to Myanmar. So if these things fail, would Chinese civilization spread to these areas?
 
Technically, Luoyang or Chang'an was the capital of the Han Dynasty which is at the center of the country. Secondly, If they already extended their influence to Nanyue, it is possible to control Funan as well. They can also have a land invasion to Myanmar. So if these things fail, would Chinese civilization spread to these areas?

Vietnam was never under firm Chinese control. Furthermore as said before they don't have incentives to do much in Southeast Asia...
...unless they are attacked from the north and are forced to find refuge. A possibility I like to consider is Ming generals conquering various Southeast Asian countries, such as the Philippines, Myanmar, or Vietnam. This could lead to stronger Chinese influence(Use of Chinese characters, Confucianism) in the region.
 
Vietnam was never under firm Chinese control. Furthermore as said before they don't have incentives to do much in Southeast Asia...
...unless they are attacked from the north and are forced to find refuge. A possibility I like to consider is Ming generals conquering various Southeast Asian countries, such as the Philippines, Myanmar, or Vietnam. This could lead to stronger Chinese influence(Use of Chinese characters, Confucianism) in the region.

I'm pretty sure they would possibly need Southeast Asia for trade and sea purposes, since it made ocean access to Europe possible. Do you think that the Chinese would either influence Funan (Thailand) like what China did to Japan or conquer them like Vietnam? Would they do it by land or sea?
 
I'm pretty sure they would possibly need Southeast Asia for trade and sea purposes, since it made ocean access to Europe possible. Do you think that the Chinese would either influence Funan (Thailand) like what China did to Japan or conquer them like Vietnam? Would they do it by land or sea?

For this you need to make anti-pirate raids less expensive. The reason China went all anti-maritime trade was because they were so expensive to keep safe.
 
For this you need to make anti-pirate raids less expensive. The reason China went all anti-maritime trade was because they were so expensive to keep safe.

wasnt china the richest country until 1820 or so? if "tiny" nations like france can afford it why cant china?
 
wasnt china the richest country until 1820 or so? if "tiny" nations like france can afford it why cant china?

I think the main reason is because China didn't have a developed taxation system - better commercial growth did not readily equal bigger tax revenue. Furthermore with the advent of Neo-Confucianism many merchants, after gaining a certain amount of wealth, bought a plot of land and became landowners instead of further developing their companies or banks. Although I'm not quite sure when it was that China saw a thorough permeation of Neo-Confucianism a POD needs to happen before that time for the government to both encourage mercantile growth and establish a more sophisticated tax system.
 
I think the main reason is because China didn't have a developed taxation system - better commercial growth did not readily equal bigger tax revenue. Furthermore with the advent of Neo-Confucianism many merchants, after gaining a certain amount of wealth, bought a plot of land and became landowners instead of further developing their companies or banks. Although I'm not quite sure when it was that China saw a thorough permeation of Neo-Confucianism a POD needs to happen before that time for the government to both encourage mercantile growth and establish a more sophisticated tax system.

well yeah, having a "religion" which promotes not upsetting the existing order and obeying authorities isnt really encouraging for merchants, that's true, but there's enough money around - just dont build the great wall of uselessness and open up for trade at least with the direct neighbors, that might actually lead to more peaceful relations with the tribes to the north - one of the reasons for the constant rads (which lead to the building of the wall) was chinas refusal to trade, so they came on horses and took what they needed.
 
Champa *was* an Imperial Chinese tributary state, but the Viets just shank them in a period of weakness in the Mainland, and then continues on and on and on.

Having a more active, South-oriented China would mean the survival of Champa, in my opinion.
 
What about not forming a single Chinese state at all and making an alt-Chu state concentrate on naval tradition and stuff while the other alt-Warring States go separate ways? This would also make Confucianism somewhat less prominent. Maybe.
 
What about not forming a single Chinese state at all and making an alt-Chu state concentrate on naval tradition and stuff while the other alt-Warring States go separate ways? This would also make Confucianism somewhat less prominent. Maybe.

And then, at the rise of nationalism, the different Chinese states from Indonesia to Manchuria all rise to form a union...
Jesus, that got me a bit freaked out.
 
And then, at the rise of nationalism, the different Chinese states from Indonesia to Manchuria all rise to form a union...
Jesus, that got me a bit freaked out.

Eh. I'd have thought the various strains of alt-Chinese culture would diverge like the various nations from the Roman Empire.

But that sounds fun. :D:D:D:D:D
 
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