Chinese History : Yellow Turban Victory

PhilippeO

Banned
Islam itself does not spread in full force much further east than present-day Iran's borders with Pakistan and Afganistan.


with POD in 206, Muhammad will no longer be born. Islam will not exist.
 
Depends on how big your butterflies are. Certainly, if we were to expect maximal chaoscopic levels, all of the history of the world would be massively changed. However, for the purposes of a relatable narrative, it may be better to lower the levels and assume that geographic regions farther away are not as greatly impacted.
 
So what I'm about to say is constructive criticism, not anything against your writing. You need to really elaborate on how Zhang Bao succeeded where he and his brothers failed in OTL. There's a bit of hand waving in the description on his successes in beating all the other notable warlords; keep in mind that the rebellion was put down relatively quickly. Even if Huangfu Song lost and was killed, there would be another army (or armies) raised to fight against the rebellion.

Just something to keep in mind.
 
Since you're new here, I'll try to be brief.

Hey guys, I'm PhoenicianLegacy and I's an honour to join this forum and establish my first thread!

. . .

Here we go :

From the years 184-205 AD, a massive peasant revolt motivated by Taoism, known as the Yellow Turban Rebellion, ravaged the country of China, an event which marked the beginning of the end for the Han Dynasty 's 400 year reign. The rebellion itself was established by three brothers from oldest to youngest : Zhang Jue, Zhang Bao and Zhang Liang. In our timeline, the rebels were successfully put down by a volunteer army lead by generals who would eventually establish The Wei, Wu and Shu Kingdoms following the Han's turbulent collapse. Very soon, the three kingdoms turned against each other for supremacy in China, during the aptly named Three Kingdoms period (AD 220-280).

In this alternate timeline however In 184 AD, rather than the last surviving Zhang brother, Bao being beheaded by Imperial General Huangfu Song as in our timeline, a vice versa occurs. Decapitator Huangfu becomes the decapitated and his death at rebel hands greatly demoralizes the Han's army. Thus, fear is installed into all within Imperial court upon underestimating such a menace to their power.

. . .

After several years of gruelling struggle, Bao and his fellow rebels managed to finally dispose of the remaining Han loyalists including the Ten eunuchs and emerge triumphant. Thus, the course of Chinese history, along with the rest of East Asia is changed forever. Immediately afterwards, The Yellow Turban leader seizes the Chinese throne for himself and establishes his own dynasty, The Zhang Dynasty lasting a total of 274 years (189-463 AD).

Since Zhang Bao and rest of the Yellow Turbans were once peasants themselves, they were able to more easily relate to the lower class's ordeals. Therefore as long as the new dynasty lived, numerous revolutionary economic and social reforms acts were performed which led to their immense popularity, support and success. Almost none of the reforms proved insufficient, helping China's progress in ways beyond words. Among the reforms instituted was the addressing of inequalities among Chinese people everywhere, that had grown over the centuries previously.
. . .

Due to the Yellow Turbans being devotedly Taoist, they believed that Taoism was the force that helped them win their struggle and liberate the people, so the Yellow Turbans believed than a Chinese being anything other than Taoist will be disrespectful. The faith of Taoism was enforced everywhere throughout China and all other faiths including Bhuddism, Confucianism and various folk religions were made illegal. Even though the one faith-only policy while extremely brutal, it did manage to create a strong centralization throught China as a whole. Millions accepted Taoism because they saw it as a way to divining the precarious future, receiving good fortune and as a patriotic statement towards the Emperor. Others who refused were at best, exiled.

This act proved to be a major setback on the Bhuddist faith in general. It never becomes as much of a major cultural aspect and driving force in the rest East Asia, including Korea and Japan, with Taoism taking its place. Today, Bhuddism itself is smaller in its influence, being mostly confined to India and Southeast Asia.

As other people have stated earlier, it only takes a few generations for the ruling class to distance itself from the lower class, regardless of the particular dynasty. Even if the monarchs somehow manage to continue reforms specifically with the peasants in mind, the aristocracy would be firmly opposed to losing its grip on the populace, and a coup could potentially occur if the court continues to be sidelined. In a similar manner, Daoism is not a particularly good fit for political institutions in general because it emphasizes individuality and nature over society/groups and artificially constructed structures. Given that Chinese dynasties have long alternated between Legalism and Confucianism in order to run the government, I don't see why the situation should be different here. Buddhism also shouldn't be targeted unless corruption becomes a main issue at it was IOTL.

Without the Three Kingdoms period to put a setback on China's and influence and territory were expanded even further under the Zhang. All of Korea save for the Northeast Goguryeo Kingdom was conquered along with several Southeast Asians such as the Burmese, Thai and Khmer. In addition to east and south, China also absorbed lands west nearby that of the White Huns and the Wusun, Xionghu and Xiangbei to the north. Other neighbors of China such as the state of Wa(modern-day Kyushu, Japan), Funan, the Pyu City states and others became loyal protectorates and vassals of China for numerous centuries that followed. Eventually, China even absorbed former territory of its neighbor, the Kushan in the wake of its collapse in 375 AD.

You should probably rewrite this entire section after learning more about geopolitics within the region during this time period. Throughout its history, China only pursued expansion when there were competing regional claims or neighboring states refused to pay tribute, neither of which is the case here. The Han conquered Gojoseon specifically because it had allied with the Xiongnu and cut off trade routes, while the Cao Wei invaded Goguryeo because the latter raided a profitable region. However, neither states extended direct political control further than the western coast of the peninsula, mostly due to the fact that it was much more profitable to retain the various statelets as tributaries instead of conquering them at an economic loss for no discernible reason. A similar logic extends to in Southeast Asia as well, given that apart from Vietnam, the entities generally tended to pay tribute, and diplomatic relations were generally cordial. On the other hand, while the Xiongnu gradually disintegrated before the Han's collapse in 220 AD, the Xianbei was one of several entities that filled in the power vacuum in Central Asia, and even moved into North China en masse after the Sima Jin collapsed due to political turmoil. In addition, Goguryeo and some of the Xianbei tribes could ally with each other in order to counter the Zhang's influence, similar to what occurred IOTL.
 
Since you're new here, I'll try to be brief.



As other people have stated earlier, it only takes a few generations for the ruling class to distance itself from the lower class, regardless of the particular dynasty. Even if the monarchs somehow manage to continue reforms specifically with the peasants in mind, the aristocracy would be firmly opposed to losing its grip on the populace, and a coup could potentially occur if the court continues to be sidelined. In a similar manner, Daoism is not a particularly good fit for political institutions in general because it emphasizes individuality and nature over society/groups and artificially constructed structures. Given that Chinese dynasties have long alternated between Legalism and Confucianism in order to run the government, I don't see why the situation should be different here. Buddhism also shouldn't be targeted unless corruption becomes a main issue at it was IOTL.

You should probably rewrite this entire section after learning more about geopolitics within the region during this time period. Throughout its history, China only pursued expansion when there were competing regional claims or neighboring states refused to pay tribute, neither of which is the case here. The Han conquered Gojoseon specifically because it had allied with the Xiongnu and cut off trade routes, while the Cao Wei invaded Goguryeo because the latter raided a profitable region. However, neither states extended direct political control further than the western coast of the peninsula, mostly due to the fact that it was much more profitable to retain the various statelets as tributaries instead of conquering them at an economic loss for no discernible reason. A similar logic extends to in Southeast Asia as well, given that apart from Vietnam, the entities generally tended to pay tribute, and diplomatic relations were generally cordial. On the other hand, while the Xiongnu gradually disintegrated before the Han's collapse in 220 AD, the Xianbei was one of several entities that filled in the power vacuum in Central Asia, and even moved into North China en masse after the Sima Jin collapsed due to political turmoil. In addition, Goguryeo and some of the Xianbei tribes could ally with each other in order to counter the Zhang's influence, similar to what occurred IOTL.

If Gogureyo pisses of China by teaming with the Xianbei, that would probably mean that Gogureyo may as well get conquered.
 
If Gogureyo pisses of China by teaming with the Xianbei, that would probably mean that Gogureyo may as well get conquered.

How? IOTL, Goguryeo initially allied with the Xianbei against the Han during Taejo's reign (r. AD 53-121/146, although the specific dates are disputed), or around a century before the Han collapsed due to internal social turmoil. Although both sides fought for control over Liaodong and Lelang for several decades due to their strategic locations, neither was able to maintain their gains for long, resulting in a general stalemate in the long run. The Han also later led a small army of around 10,000 men into Jwa-won in order to subdue Goguryeo in 172, but they were eventually repulsed, suggesting that the Han did not consider Goguryeo as a significant threat when compared with other states in Central Asia.

The Cao Wei did conquer Goguryeo in 244 in retaliation for the latter raiding a profitable region, but they voluntarily withdrew soon afterwards mostly due to the fact that the region was extremely inhospitable, not to mention that it had virtually no significant resources to speak of, allowing Goguryeo to quietly rebuild and eventually conquer Lelang in 313 by taking advantage of the chaos within the Jin. Although the Wei continued its march southward into the statelets dominated by Mahan (54), Jinhan (12), and Byeonhan (12), they also left them alone because it was much more profitable to leave them as tributaries. In other words, while there might be an extremely remote possibility that Goguryeo might somehow be conquered outright, the Zhang will eventually leave it alone due to its geography, while it would be virtually impossible to impose direct political control over the southern statelets, let alone other entities within Southeast Asia, not to mention Central Asia, in which the latter will continue to conduct periodic raids from the steppes.

As a sidenote, the title is parsed as Go-gu-ryeo, and "reyo" is not a valid syllable in Korean. You also misspelled "Buddhism" as "Bhuddism" earlier, so try not to do it again.
 
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