Chinese conquer India.

What if at some point in their history, The Chinese where able to conquer, and hold on to part of India?
 
They can't at least before 1850s technology- there's a reason why most of India's trade with China still goes by sea rather then overland through the Himalayas...
 
Well, Kashmir is kind a part of the India sub-continent, and China does control the northern part of that. Or does it have to be a substantial part of India?
 
It would have to be an area large enough to result in a hybrid culture. Coastal colonies?

If China starts modernizating VERY early on, it could get to the level of Japan by the 1850s in the coastal areas and use its newfound power to acquire some overseas colonies, including a few ports in India, like Japan did in China in OTL...
 
If China starts modernizating VERY early on, it could get to the level of Japan by the 1850s in the coastal areas and use its newfound power to acquire some overseas colonies, including a few ports in India, like Japan did in China in OTL...
I meant EARLIER. :rolleyes:
 
China had no reason what ever to conquer India. China did not often expand, and when it did it was to either bring under imperial rule land newly settled by farmers, or to eliminate persistent barbarian threats. The Himalayas made these two developments extremely unlikely.

Even if China became highly expansionist, India would have little to offer. It's main advantage to the Europeans was its many useful crops and abundant labor force. China had no need for extra labor, and had no special need for Indian crops. Anything China could use from India could be acquired through trade, which is quite cheap compared with war.

At best, if the Ming voyages continued there would be some trading colonies on the Indian coast. There were indeed a few IOTL. Perhaps Ceylon would be an attractive possession as a base for trade and influence. But Ceylon is Sri Lanka not India.
 
An expansionistic Ming China in the Indian Ocean would probably try to bring Ceylon and other Indian states into it's tributary system, though it's unlikely for a direct conquest. However, I don't think it's impossible, particularly if they were a lot more into naval expansion, for whatever reason.

I could imagine a world where Vietnam is incorporated into China, and where the Chinese control the flow of Indian Ocean trade, collecting tribute from states all the way to the east coast of Africa. In such a scenario, you would see hybridising of cultures. Perhaps a south India that more closely resembles OTL's southeast Asia?
 
Menzies has written a book entitle 1421: The Year the Chinese discovered the World and by that stage China was certainly capable of founding, and holding, a series of trading posts around the Indian Ocean and East Indies. However, the fact that neighbouring Vietnam was never assimilated bodes ill for any attempts of a Chinese Colonial Empire
 
Menzies has written a book entitle 1421: The Year the Chinese discovered the World and by that stage China was certainly capable of founding, and holding, a series of trading posts around the Indian Ocean and East Indies. However, the fact that neighbouring Vietnam was never assimilated bodes ill for any attempts of a Chinese Colonial Empire

1421: The Year the Chinese discovered the World is a bunch of crap. It makes bad history, and fairly implausible alternate history. I also don't see a conquest of India happening very easily.

One idea might be during the Han dynasty when the Chinese were ought trying to stop the horse nomads, it might possible that really occupy and colonize Central Asia. Those Chinese might eventually take the place of the horse nomads that during numerous times invaded India. Instead the Chinese are the ones that ride into Delhi.
 
I could imagine a world where Vietnam is incorporated into China, and where the Chinese control the flow of Indian Ocean trade, collecting tribute from states all the way to the east coast of Africa. In such a scenario, you would see hybridising of cultures. Perhaps a south India that more closely resembles OTL's southeast Asia?
Thing was, even before the Ming the Chinese tried to avoid culture hybrization and were quite good at assimilating native populations into China-- I mean, everybody thinks of Yunnan as solidly Chinese now, but Chinese conquest and occupation of the area only started in the 1300s (I think).

The trick was to promote Mandarin langauge and culture through regulation and examination. If you wanted to be any part of the Chinese Civil Service you had to not only be able to read, write, and speak Chinese, but also display a solid knowledge of Confucian texts and Chinese culture.


As for occupying Kashmir, that'd be tricky for any Chinese dynasty pre-Qing. The Tang dynasty just barely bordered what's known as Kashmir, Mongol expansion during the Yuan period likely wouldn't result in anything recognizably Chinese, and the rest of the dynasties generally didn't expand further west than Sichuan. A better route for China expansion might be through Yunnan and heading southwest from there, through parts of Burma and Bangladesh.
 

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The Chinese probably can't barring very very significant divergence from the historical characteristics of their empire.

They need to focus on the commercial aspects empire-building, for one.
 
I dunno, I could see a thassalocracy over parts of India during the Ming, and the Tang did send military forces into the subcontinent. So it's unlikely, but not entirely ASB.
 
The Chinese invaded Burma many times, under the Mongols and underthe Qing, I think. Have any of these invasions been successful, China might get Assam and/or ports/vassals/colonies in India proper. Don't understimate Chinese imperialism in other ages.
 
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