Chinese civil war vs. Spanish civil war: which had a bigger world impact

Which civil war had a bigger impact?

  • Spanish civil war

    Votes: 9 7.5%
  • Chinese civil war

    Votes: 111 92.5%

  • Total voters
    120
Effect on the world? Well yeah the Chinese civil war, turning one of the most populated places on earth Communist, Maoist even, causing the world's worst famine in history. An outcome that influenced world powers like USA and Russia, a country that invaded and is still occupying Tibet which still causes outcries all over the world, a country that supported communist countries like North Korea and Vietnam and kept them in existence to this day(well Vietnam changed a lot over time). Yeah...

Spanish civil war had influence on WWII, but hardly on the way the world went. They supported the other fascists nations that are now buried. Only took 3 year as well, unlike the Chinese Civil war that took roughly 13 years. And just to put in the casualties, maximum of 2 million killed in the spanish civil war including civilians, over 16 million during the Chinese one including civilians.
 
The Spanish Civil War is a butterfly nest and was a warm up for the Second World War. Change the outcome of that and you will alter the biggest war on human history and everything after.
 

nbcman

Donor
The Spanish Civil War is a butterfly nest and was a warm up for the Second World War. Change the outcome of that and you will alter the biggest war on human history and everything after.
That’s interesting. Tell me how a Republican victory versus a Nationalist victory would have impacted the Chinese Civil War or even the European War?
 
That’s interesting. Tell me how a Republican victory versus a Nationalist victory would have impacted the Chinese Civil War or even the European War?
The European war, after France Hitler would have to tackle Spain instead of Britain. That's a would be a waste of resources and buy Britain time.
Bobarosa would still happen because of the Nazis were talking about. But it would be delayed or have fewer resources , not a recipe for success.
A quicker German defeat would mean more resources directed at Japan.
The Nationalists would advance against a depleted Japan and be welcomed by the liberated population.
The Soviets would advance deeply into northern China. Mao would be a popular local leader in an area under Stalin's control. He might be in a little trouble.
 

nbcman

Donor
The European war, after France Hitler would have to tackle Spain instead of Britain.
Why? A Republican Spain would be as divided and weak as Nationalist Spain. The Spaniards wan’t no part of the war.
That's a would be a waste of resources and buy Britain time.
Agreed, so why would the Germans do it? They can still trade with Spain.
Bobarosa would still happen because of the Nazis were talking about. But it would be delayed or have fewer resources , not a recipe for success.
Agreed that Barbarossa would happen but it would be with similar forces-except for the Spanish Blue division.
A quicker German defeat would mean more resources directed at Japan.
The Nationalists would advance against a depleted Japan and be welcomed by the liberated population.
Probably no change to German defeat. So no change in Pacific.
The Soviets would advance deeply into northern China. Mao would be a popular local leader in an area under Stalin's control. He might be in a little trouble.
Same as OTL for the Soviets and Communist Chinese-and the Nationalists will still lose through their own mistakes regardless of the results of the SCW.
 
Why? A Republican Spain would be as divided and weak as Nationalist Spain. The Spaniards wan’t no part of the war.

Agreed, so why would the Germans do it? They can still trade with Spain.
Agreed that Barbarossa would happen but it would be with similar forces-except for the Spanish Blue division.

Probably no change to German defeat. So no change in Pacific.

Same as OTL for the Soviets and Communist Chinese-and the Nationalists will still lose through their own mistakes regardless of the results of the SCW.

Hitler would want payback, he didn't take defeat well had a vengeful streak. Going after Spain is totally in character for Hitler
 
To quote Premier Zhou Enlai, its to early to say.

Well, not really in this case. Spain cannot heavily influence WW2 and is so less relevant than China in the post WW2 world that it's gotta be China.
 

nbcman

Donor
Hitler would want payback, he didn't take defeat well had a vengeful streak. Going after Spain is totally in character for Hitler
So why weren't Panzers rolling over the Pyrenees on 24 October 1940 when Franco refused to enter the war? Hitler was vengeful but he could also be pragmatic. A neutral Spain that was able to trade with Germany under any regime was better for Germany than an occupied Spain or a Spain that joined the Axis.
 
So why weren't Panzers rolling over the Pyrenees on 24 October 1940 when Franco refused to enter the war? Hitler was vengeful but he could also be pragmatic. A neutral Spain that was able to trade with Germany under any regime was better for Germany than an occupied Spain or a Spain that joined the Axis.
Think about the German effort in aiding the Nationalists where all of it has gone to waste with the Republican Victory.
 
Whar happens to Red Spain after the fall of France is an awkward question. On the one hand, Red Spain will be intrinsically hostile to Nazi Germany, and Hitler will want to destroy it. That will be tempting, as it would be a blow at Britain as well - greatly expanding Axis access to the Atlantic, and taking out Gibraltar. After the blitz of France, taking Spain would look easy.

However, Red Spain is at least friendly to, if not a satellite of, the USSR - which at this time is Germany's ally and supplier. Stalin won't like it if Germany stomps on Spain. Stalin will almost certainly direct Red Spain to cooperate with Germany. But Moscow may only have influence in Spain, not control. President Azaǹa is not even a Socialist; Prime Minister Largo Caballero, "the Spanish Lenin", is a Socialist, not a Communist.

Hitler won't trust Spain, and will want to seize control there as in OTL Yugoslavia. But doing so before BARBAROSSA would be a warning that even Stalin would not ignore. So does Germany attack Spain at the same time? That will divert a lot of resources from BARBAROSSA.

Another question is how Germany would launch this attack. OTL, Germany controlled only a very short stretch of the French-Spanish border, the rest lying in unoccupied France. Attacking on a narrow front is not a good idea, but expanding the front creates political difficulties.

Another question is what becomes of Spain's colonies, which joined the 1936 rebellion. Red Spain may not be able to reach out and regain control. The Canary Islands could become a Spanish "Taiwan", hosting a rump Nationalist government. If so, it would be very tempting to Britain in 1940 to seize the Canaries (which would be used by the Axis as a covert base). Then Britain has to work out the status with Red Spain (which is still under Moscow's pro-German influence).

(Isn't all this messy?)

Spain's status also would greatly affect Allied actions in North Africa. If Spain is German-occupied, TORCH is impossible; if Spain is Red, TORCH becomes easy.

Later, the Allies might decide to invade occupied Europe from Red Spain. Yes, it would be a longer path than across the Channel. But it would avoid the immense difficulties and risk of an amphibious operation. If Germany holds Spain, then the Allies may need to attack Spain first anyway; they will become embroiled with German troops occupying Spanish Morocco.

So WW II is going to be significantly affected.

OTOH...

If the RoC defeat the Communists, about 1/5 of the world population is affected immediately. The whole balance of the Cold War will be very different, with hostile US and RoC forces posted in Sinkiang, adjacent to the USSR's strategic heartland. Communism will not be a force in East Asia (no Korean War, or Vietnam War).

At a broader level - China will become a major economic and cultural force in the world decades sooner than OTL. Also, there will be no Great Cultural Revolution destroying 99% of China's cultural heritage. (During the "Four Olds" campaign, the Red Guards invaded museums, libraries, and private homes, and burned all the "old culture": books, family records, artwork.) IMO, at least 10%, maybe as much as 25% of the world's artistic heritage was lost.
 
The Spainish war will cause butterflies in the Chinese war thereby making it more important.

Since the Spanish civil war was first it is most important, if it was Chinese first then that would be more important.

A different Spanish civil war can cause any change in China that could happen independently

Any event that precedes another will influence it.
 

nbcman

Donor
The Spainish war will cause butterflies in the Chinese war thereby making it more important.

Since the Spanish civil war was first it is most important, if it was Chinese first then that would be more important.

A different Spanish civil war can cause any change in China that could happen independently

Any event that precedes another will influence it.
The Chinese Civil War started in the 1920s which means, by your logic, the CCW would be the most important.
 
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