Chinese battleship tender

[SealTheRealDeal]

Having survived the Xinhai Rebellion the Qing dynasty has returned to its old habits, namely importing white elephants. In the year 1928 they issue a tender to the ship builders of the world for two new treaty compliant battleships (Dingyuan II and Zhenyuan II). Realizing that this will probably be their only chance to sharpen their skillsets during the Battleship Holiday, the naval powers strongly encourage their shipyards to participate.

Which company is likely to win this contract, and what are the likely features of its design?

 

[Ian Henderson]

Having survived the Xinhai Rebellion the Qing dynasty has returned to its old habits, namely importing white elephants. In the year 1928 they issue a tender to the ship builders of the world for two new treaty compliant battleships (Dingyuan II and Zhenyuan II). Realizing that this will probably be their only chance to sharpen their skillsets during the Battleship Holiday, the naval powers strongly encourage their shipyards to participate.

Which company is likely to win this contract, and what are the likely features of its design?

I think under the circumstances this will be a fundamentally political decision. Which power is willing to offer the best terms to China because it seeks to strengthen ties, and who do the Chinese most desire to see drawn into a closer relationship. Personally I think the British are most likely to see this as a valuable counterbalance to Japanese ambitions, and they do have the large private shipbuilding industry to support. The big question for me is will the Japanese try to pressure the Qing into buying from them. After all, the only ships the Republic of China ordered were the Ning Hai class cruisers from Japan. All in all, the Qing, like most powers through time, when making a major international purchase of arms, are going to have put political needs ahead of military requirements.

 

[1Big Rich]

Britain had some tremendous advantages as the leading warship exporter of the time, not the least of which is the industrial base is close to the yards.

I could see the US, France and Italy competing as well, and Japan is still a possibility at this point.

That said, the Chinese did do business with Austria-Hungary for the famous (and never completed) so-called 'China cruiser'

I would think Britain would win the contract; Nelson and Rodney are the newest, most powerful battleships in the world in 1928, and among the fastest battleships in the world at the time as well. Plus Britain has a modern 16in gun (experiencing teething problems at this point, but the Chinese don't know that). I doubt the Chinese would want the all-forward layout, but I'm sure British yards could design and 8 or 9 gun battleship with the 16in Mk I on 35,000 tons. If China wants a faster battleship or battlecruiser, the UK yards have experience there as well.

I could see the US offering a battleship using the 16in/50 Mk 2 and 3 guns for the never-completed Lexington and South Dakota (BB-49) classes at no cost, maybe even including extra guns as spares and for coast defense as an additional incentive. But a US-built ship would still be more expensive than one built in the UK. Japan might offer an updated Nagato type on 35,000 tons. France and Italy would have to design a 16in to compete in caliber, though Italy did have the 15in/40 used in the Francesco Caracciolo class.

My thoughts,

 

[ShySusan]

I may be mistaken, but weren't the world powers forbidden by the WNT from building battleships during this time period? And I thought that included building ships for foreign powers?

 

[CV12Hornet]

I may be mistaken, but weren't the world powers forbidden by the WNT from building battleships during this time period? And I thought that included building ships for foreign powers?

WNT Article XV:
No vessel of war constructed within the jurisdiction of any of the Contracting Powers for a non-Contracting Power shall exceed the limitations as to displacement and armament prescribed by the present Treaty for vessels of a similar type which may be constructed by or for any of the Contracting Powers; provided, however, that the displacement for aircraft-carriers constructed for a non-Contracting Power shall in no case exceed 27,000 tons (27,432 metric tons) standard displacement.

WNT Article XVI:
If the construction of any vessel of war for a non-Contracting Power is undertaken within the jurisdiction of any of the Contracting Powers, such Power shall promptly inform the other Contracting Powers of the date of the signing of the contract and the date on which the keel of the ship is laid; and shall also communicate to them the particulars relating to the ship prescribed in Chapter II, Part 3, Section I(b), (4) and (5).

Construction of battleships for non-signatory powers was allowed, provided they complied with the other restrictions enumerated by the Washington Naval Treaty.

Britain does have the lead in this endeavor. They have a pre-existing industrial relationship, the most advanced industry with two private companies who can bid on the tender, and incentive to arm China given the Japanese presence. The Japanese are the second, most likely, with their yards largely freed up even with 35,000-ton battleships planned for themselves and them being well-placed to pressure the Chinese.

 

[jlckansas]

How much does the US have on the shelf from the canceled Lexingtons and South Dakotas? I do know some of the 14's and 16's were saved, I would think that some of the powerplants and propulsion equipment is available on short notice. They might also be willing to give good terms on this with the backing of the China Lobby and business interests there.

 

[1Big Rich]

How much does the US have on the shelf from the canceled Lexingtons and South Dakotas? I do know some of the 14's and 16's were saved, I would think that some of the powerplants and propulsion equipment is available on short notice. They might also be willing to give good terms on this with the backing of the China Lobby and business interests there.

Turbines from the battleships were used in rebuilds of the Standards.

Of the guns,

USA 16"/50 (40.6 cm) Mark 2 and Mark 3 - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

NavWeaps says 71 completed with 44 more in progress when the treaty intervened.

Regards,

 

[Talwar]

Perhaps the French - rather than accelerate development of a 15" or 16" - instead offer something centred on refurbished 34cm/45 guns that were intended for use in the Normandies and are perhaps still lying around. Figure four twins in a conventional A-Bs-Xs-Y layout.

Iffy prospects for a DP secondary at this point, so three twin 155mm Modele 1920 on each beam and around six or eight single 75mm AA guns and some light stuff mounted a deck up from the 155s.

Treaty-compliant displacement likely allows for protection and speed equal to or surpassing the Kongos, so the Chinese end up with a couple of fast battleships or battlecruisers.