China german troops

The German trained divisions of the NRA were the elite core of the Army. When used against IJA troops the Germans observed they were roughly equal in combat capability, if I recall correctly.
 
Yes, the German trained divisions were the elite of the Chinese Army. They were well armed and trained and in combat they were quite capable of defeating the Imperial Japanese Army. The trouble was there were not enough of them and after the loses taken they could not be replaced. It wasn't until the Chinese Army troops fought in Burma that they had a chanced to be trained and properly equipped by the US. Once again it was proven that the Chinese Soldier was not inferior to the Imperial Japanese Army.
 
If the Germans had been able to train an equip 80 divisions it would have made a major change in the War in China. It is likely that the Japanese wouldn't have been so willing to expand the war.. But to properly train 80 divisions would involve a much larger effort and the purchase or production of far more weapons.
 
At the start of the war in July 1937, Chiang had eight divisions trained and equipped plus another 12 trained but not equipped. Unfortunately for China, the eight elite divisions were mauled early on during the fighting as Chiang engaged them in Shanghai. He thought that a defiant battle early on would encourage the Europeans and Americans to put pressure on Japan to cease fighting, but they were reluctant to pressure Japan either because the Depression or European politics preoccupied them. They took too heavily casualties early on and never recovered their original strength, although Chiang's central army overall (the forces under his direct control, not allied warlords) were still the best Chinese troops (other than the Guangxi Clique units). In retrospect, knowing the Allies would not intervene and the war would last many years, Chiang should have conserved his forces so they'd be available for the crucial battles inland.

So they had a good effect, but it was diminished because of the casualties they took. They were among the few units Chiang could really rely upon to follow his orders, and they acted as a mobile reserve to shore up his front. When Chiang effectively lost those units when Burma collapsed in 1942, their loss was a blow. Their presence probably enabled Chiang to continue to fight, but there weren't enough of them in 1937 so that he could defeat Japan. Hold out in stalemate, yes, but not win.

If Chiang had his entire central army so trained and equipped (I know the Wikipedia mentions an 80 division plan, but elsewhere I've read the actual number was 60 - about 20 trained and equipped per year for three years from 1936-1939), the war would have been very different. Japan likely would not have been able to land and advance from the Yangtze Delta, and its offensive in North China would have stalled at the Yellow River and perhaps even pushed back.

A huge advantage to Chiang is that with his central army trained equipped plus the divisions controlled by his most loyal allies, he'd be vastly superior to any of the warlords and he'd be able to manage the entire Chinese armed forces and domestic governance much better. It would increase the tax base, improve governance, and centralize the entire army's payroll and logistics. The warlords would simply not be able to resist Chiang. Chiang's goal was to establish a strong enough force to eliminate the warlords, and then after incorporating their lands under the Nanking government prepare for a war against Japan to reclaim Manchuria. So the idea was build the army from '36 to '39. Quash the warlords in '40 and '41. And then prepare for an offensive war against Japan sometime after 1942 probably after some kind of diplomatic maneuvering.

At the same time as the army plan, China was also expanding its industry so that it could produce a lot of the base materials and military equipment China needed. So any war that broke out in 1939 or 1940 would be unrecognizable compared to the actual war that began in 1937.
 
China's biggest problem was that it lacked the industrial base to build the equipment needed to build a large army. Chinese industry was producing a copy of the K98 German rifle and had also managed to produce mortars. It struggled to produce machine guns, artillery and other equipment. Still with a little bit of luck and purchases from overseas the Chinese might have been able to produce enough equipment to come close to the goal of 60divisions.
 

Archibald

Banned
For a brief moment I wondered if Hitler had actually trained the ennemy of its own Axis ally Imperial Japan. Then I found it was Weimer, not the nazis.
 
For a brief moment I wondered if Hitler had actually trained the ennemy of its own Axis ally Imperial Japan. Then I found it was Weimer, not the nazis.

The Nazis were pretty friendly with Nationalist China - the switch to Japan began after the Sino-Japanese war began. With trade with China severed (Germany was importing a great deal of ... Chromium, IIRC? Some metal, really), the Japanese made an offer to Germany - stop supporting China, pull out their advisors and Japan will supply Germany just as China did. The Japanese didn't actually send the resources, mind - they needed them for their own industry, but by that point the Germans had burned their bridges and were stuck.

Well, they did view Japan as a more viable alternative. Something to distract the British in the coming war that was more useful than China, so there's that, too.
 
The Nazis were pretty friendly with Nationalist China - the switch to Japan began after the Sino-Japanese war began. With trade with China severed (Germany was importing a great deal of ... Chromium, IIRC? Some metal, really), the Japanese made an offer to Germany - stop supporting China, pull out their advisors and Japan will supply Germany just as China did. The Japanese didn't actually send the resources, mind - they needed them for their own industry, but by that point the Germans had burned their bridges and were stuck.

Well, they did view Japan as a more viable alternative. Something to distract the British in the coming war that was more useful than China, so there's that, too.

Yeah, I think they certainly bet on the wrong horse in Asia, if only because of Pearl.

If they'd managed even 40 divisions the Japanese might not have considered an attack on the U.S as they would be much more occupied in China. If Chiang has those troops by the end of WWII (assuming it happens somewhat like OTL) they could be U.S equipped instead, having been German trained, they would likely be the nucleus of Chiang's Army to bring about the fall of the Mao and the CCP.
 
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