China and USA join central powers

WI that happened?

Well its ASB seeing as China hated Geermany as they had Chinese colonies and Germany was sinking Americas ships but I suppose it would be a quicker war as China would be able to knock out Russia in a few weeks seeing as the Russians have almost all of their strength on their western front.After that im guessing China fights Japan while America helps Germany blockade Britain while the Germans,with no eastern front knock out the other entente members.

Soon Britain is alone and starving and probably surrenders along with Japan who'll be facing the same tactics in the pacific at this point.
 
Heres a try at it:

POD 1898: Germany doesn't take a harbour of China. Rather, Businesses such as Krupp decide that since China is a massive potential market, they sponsor it and set up shop there. The Dragon that Napoleon mentioned is about to be awakened.

1912: Sun Yat Sen forges a permanent alliance with the Kaiser Wilhelm II. The USA also begins drifting towards German influence

1914: terrorists murder the Austrian Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand. WW1 breaks out

1916: The USA join the Central powers

1917: The war ends with China gaining much of Siberia and Indochina, Germany getting all of Poland, and occupying Byelorussia and Ukraine as well as the Baltic states and Finland alongside colonies in Africa and South East Asia. The United States occupies Canada and Mexico receives Jamaica and Belize.

1927: Interpol agents, mainly German, find and kill Mao Zedong's terrorist group.

Maybe a three way cold war between Germany, USA and China could develop later on?
 
Hm... well, how is very important to finding out what happens...
Now, China isn't as ASBish as The Red make it out to be- China disliked the German and Habsburg concessions, yes, but they disliked the French, British and Russian concessions just as much, if not more, and they did join the Entente in OTL. Given China's situation in 1914, and even more so later in the war, having them enter war against anyone that is in good position to strike against them does not seem likely at all, however- I pulled it off in A Central East, but that required things like a neutral Britain and an Allied ('Central Powers') Japan, and it still didn't happen until Russia was out of the game. But if you have China being more politically united during the Great War, with the following effects (something like Hendryk's Superpower Empire TL, but perhaps even more) that brings, it might be possible to get away with less.
The USA is harder- isolationism was deeply ingrained, so you'd basically have to have one of the Entente powers attack them (or 'Briand telegram' them) to get them to join. Or, perhaps, escalate tensions gradually, but that, again, most likely requires a pre-Great War POD.
 
Well its ASB seeing as China hated Geermany as they had Chinese colonies and Germany was sinking Americas ships but I suppose it would be a quicker war as China would be able to knock out Russia in a few weeks seeing as the Russians have almost all of their strength on their western front.After that im guessing China fights Japan while America helps Germany blockade Britain while the Germans,with no eastern front knock out the other entente members.

Soon Britain is alone and starving and probably surrenders along with Japan who'll be facing the same tactics in the pacific at this point.
As far as Germany's treaty ports go, that's hardly a good reason to say that China joining the Central Powers is ASB; the various members of the Entente had many more of their own ports and sphere's of influence China.
 
If China joins, Japan is going to have a much larger role in the war. Maybe they can get Manchuria legitimately in this time line as a League of Nations mandate.
 
As far as Germany's treaty ports go, that's hardly a good reason to say that China joining the Central Powers is ASB; the various members of the Entente had many more of their own ports and sphere's of influence China.

I didnt rally think the China alliance was asb but an American one would be very hard to come across.
 
Conflict with Japan could bring about US and/or Chinese entry on the side of the Central Powers. Perhaps a clash between US and Japanese ships in the Marianas as one possibility. Which leads eventually to war between the US and Japan. China decides to get in on the act, perhaps in a chance to retake the European colonies of the Entente nations.
 
Maybe this TL could lead to the stronger Anglo-Japanese alliance that I proposed in an earlier thread. Of course, that depends on how the war ends. Japan may have an advantage over China with its military, but the rest of the Entente may simultaneously lose in Europe. How would the post-war diplomacy occur if the theaters of combat have opposite results?
 
If China joins, Japan is going to have a much larger role in the war. Maybe they can get Manchuria legitimately in this time line as a League of Nations mandate.

They'll have to win the war also :D.

On the other hand, Japan certainly had a fine navy even in this time frame, and the RN was pretty kick-ass. How big was the USN? It could hardly have been as prominent as the WW2 version, right?
 

Hendryk

Banned
Well its ASB seeing as China hated Geermany as they had Chinese colonies and Germany was sinking Americas ships but I suppose it would be a quicker war as China would be able to knock out Russia in a few weeks seeing as the Russians have almost all of their strength on their western front.After that im guessing China fights Japan while America helps Germany blockade Britain while the Germans,with no eastern front knock out the other entente members.
I disagree that China joining the Central Powers is ASB; Germany was in fact the European power China had least of a beef with, since all it had was Qingdao. Some cooperation between Germany and China had already been taking place on a case-by-case basis; for example the first modern Chinese arsenal, Hanyang, had been set up with German technical expertise, and produced a copy of the German-designed Gewehr 88.

I further disagree that China would have been able to help much in military terms. In 1913 Yuan Shikai had replaced the civilian provincial governors with his cronies from the Beiyang Army, a move intended to solidify his political power, but which backfired completely when said cronies decided to ditch him and set themselves up as warlords instead. By 1914 China was a country on the verge of implosion, in which most of the military was in a state of mutiny against the central government. It would have been quite unable to mount a large-scale military operation outside of its own borders.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
I can't see this happening;
a) China was a mess, no one controlled the whole country. No chance for active warfare.

b)US had no love for Germany, they didn't wanted to get involved in the war at all first, but there was no way they'd support Germany over Britain.
 
maybe Germany became a Chinese ally and helped them modernise. Sooner or later the Manchus would see the writing on the wall, probably after the russo-Japanese war.
 
China's politics at that time weren't "Who do we have the least problem with? Hmm......" It was "All foreign white devils are not to be trusted, and we must kick them out of the country!" The Dowager Empress Cixi was trying to play her own power game with the Europeans when the Qin dynasty collapsed around everyone's ears. Sun Yat Sen had wonderful ideals for a republican government that couldn't be realized, and everybody and his brother was setting up shop as a warlord. The Imperialists, both Chinese and European, were seen as the cause of all this. The people had gotten rid of the Qin, so that's half the battle right there. If any government was able to take control and keep it, they would be destroyed utterly if they tried to ally with the Germans. The Germans, French, British, Portuguese, and everyone else were all just European to the Chinese. They were all the same. If the government was seen having dealings with any of them, that government would fall.

The only way for this to work without ASB is to have the Qin dynasty survive and prevent colonization in China. You may even have to have a POD as far back as the fifteenth century that keeps China from becoming insular and isolationist.
 
what about the Chinese seeing the United States as "non European" and forming an alliance with them?
 
A nation's power extends to the reach of its armies. The armies of the CP were very, very far away whereas the armies of the Entente in the form of Russias Pacific possesions, the British in India, Malaya and Hong Kong, the French in Indochina and Japan in Korea and Formosa were very, very close and very formidable indeed. Even the scratch forces the Entente could scrape together in the midst of WW1 to send against China would pose a major problem. So the chances of China not joining the Entente are minimal.

However if the US for some reason joined the CP then things would be very different. The USN and HSF would probably nullify the RN/GF throwing open the whole ballgame and probably make the Entente unable to intervene against China if she declared for the CP too.
 
China would not join the Central Powers because they are nobodies in East Asia. Even a Central Powers victory in Europe would not change the fact that Russia, Britain, France, and Japan will remain the big players in China, not Germany. So unless joining the Central Powers can reset this paradigm, China would have no incentive to join Germany. If the POD was earlier resulting in a stronger China this may be possible.

If the US join the Central Powers things would be considerably different as the US was a major power in the Pacific.
 
OTL the US felt strongly connected to both Germans and British. What you need is a Irish rebellion right before the war that gets crushed brutally. Then you have Irish-Americans fiercely lobbying against the British. If the Germans are lucky, and don't use unrestricted submarine warfare, the British blockade might push the Americans over the line and into the CP camp. Have the Brits act a little "holier-than-thou" towards the Americans, and you have a recipe for disaster(if your British). The result, then, will be as elaborated many times over in all sorts of CP victory threads.
 
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