Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline

Reader mode

Uberbaku

skarosianlifeform said:
Mao can't run amok like he did OTL. There are solid institutions now in China as well as patriotic and "democratic" spirit, so he is the president but it is not his regime. He can't launch mass purges in peacetime without serious justification, and his most insane economical policies just won't fly.
Click to expand...

True but he can play is political games. Probably Chinese purges would look like getting kicked out of the kMT and forced into retirement. Mao will probably use the Chiang Kids who are too close to the Pro Colonial Germans as a reason. Now its interesting on how Mao will deal with teh famine. again as said earlier not surprised a deal with the USA nukes for food and trade.

Heck it might even be funny, if they send Richard Nixon as US envoy and or ambassador to Mao in the 50s. So USA-China close relations detente happens in the 50s instead of the early 70s like in OTL.
 

CCA

Uberbaku said:
True but he can play is political games. Probably Chinese purges would look like getting kicked out of the kMT and forced into retirement. Mao will probably use the Chiang Kids who are too close to the Pro Colonial Germans as a reason. Now its interesting on how Mao will deal with teh famine. again as said earlier not surprised a deal with the USA nukes for food and trade.

Heck it might even be funny, if they send Richard Nixon as US envoy and or ambassador to Mao in the 50s. So USA-China close relations detente happens in the 50s instead of the early 70s like in OTL.
Click to expand...


This is a fun idea
 

Uberbaku

So with close USSR and China ties. China gives nuclear secrets to USSR (with help from France) probably in exchange of concessions like military tech, help with rebuilding Chinese industry and infrastructure. trade etc. I dont think China and USSR will do a close military alliance like a defence treaty. However China makes an interesting buffer backdoor defence for the USSR in case war breaks out with the Axis. In case Japan , Great Britain tries to hit the USSR from the East, China is there to deter them.
 

Uberbaku

Its funny, China gets the benefits of the nukes more than Germany. But hey not surprised Germany will probably share nuke secrets with Great Britain for economic tech benefits. Not sure what kind of benefit Japan can give Germany and Great Britain(more resources ,super cheap oil from Dutch East Indies etc. )
 

Uberbaku

oh yah this also plays in to the Chinese miracle, like massive economic infrastrcuture industrial growth and expanion of the 60s and beyond with USA and USSR help. Like Industrial help and knowhow is industrial development and mass production from the USSR and USA, and massive economic trade between USA and China , USA benefitted mightily from the Second world war profitted massively from selling to all sides. Now with the USA economy in a massive boom, lots of American consumers, cheap Chinese labour , Chinese industrial development and an American export market sees rise of China as an economic power. Military wise, USSR helps the Chinese with the latest military tech. and probably advisers.
 

Uberbaku

As for Japan, while Japan is not as devastated as China, its industries are still intact, and it did gain a important territory in the form of the Dutch East Indies which is rich in resources. Japan is in a quandry, devastated economy, loss of US trade, millions of disgruntled soldiers with no jobs, political chaos as the Japanese army gov. got kicked out replaced by Japanese navy politicos. Probably suicides executions assasinations in the Japanese military and gov. to basically purge it of the last gov. due to its defeat. humiliation in its war with China. However with the Mao becoming Chinese pres. and China exiting the Axis, Japan takes advantage and comes into the Axis with British support. Germany does not like this but Japan is an important buffer vs. the USSR and Mao China. keeping the China distracted in case of war with the USSR. Great Britain and Germany probalby helps Japan get back to its feet with trade deals, tech development etc. Now it would be interesting if Japan gets the nuke, China would view this as an act of war. Both China and Japan still hate each other bitterly. and the current lull is due to both nations being really exhausted to wage war on each other, so now its a race , the moment China gets back on its feet economically and militariily, it will probably try to kick out the Japanese from the Asian mainland starting with Korea. China also will probbably massively fund insurgency in the Dutch East Indies. and the Chinese will expand and develop its Navy , missle forces, air force. with the aim of taking back Formosa or hey how about taking Japanese territory like Okinawa, Pacific possessions,
 

Uberbaku

While both China and Japan recover from the war, China actually recovers a bit better than Japan. Now wonder by the 90s the Japanese PM is foaming at the mouth calling for the destruction of China. ahah
 

Uberbaku

Now here is the kicker, in OTL, the Chinese navy and military massively improved and expanded from the 50s to the 70s. in this timeline China is not as devastated as in OTL 50s, its industries a bit better than OTL 50s and is getting a massive boost in support from USA and USSR than in OTL, in fact, the Chinese leadership in this timeline is a bit more progressive and stable than in OTL 50s 60s. I think this will result even in a bit more Chinese military expansion and improvement. I think 3rd Sino Japanese war happens in the late 60s 70s. With the Chinese on the offensive. in Korea, the pacific, South China Sea. Formosa, Okinawa. Probalby largest navy battle occurs between China and Japan. near Formosa, Okinawa, or Hainan. I dont think Chinese troops will land in the Dutch East Indies, British will probably deter the Chinese. Heck it will be funny if the British navy joins in the fun .
 

Uberbaku

Also the 3rd Sino Japanese war will be characterized by large scale military actions and it will be a missle war, large scale use of missles. Both Japanese and Chinese launching huge barrages of missles at each other cities bases, and use of missles in naval actions.
 

Uberbaku

Post third sino Japanese war, Japan would survive but greatly diminished , its not even an empire anymore. just Japan. Protected by the British and the Germans. with a revenge hate on vs. teh Chinese.
 

Cylon_Number_14

*Googles André Breton*
He really did meet Trotsky in Mexico City?! And they wrote a book together?! That was an inspired choice for an alt-Prez of France. This was still the Third Republic right? Did Breton Head a coalition of Trotskyists and Socialists and social democrats and radicals or some such?

Meanwhile , the demographics of East Poland is all FUBAR by 1956 with the Jews from the Shoah and millions of Central Asians and Caucasus people shipped in.
 
Clandango

Clandango

I remember reading that when Hitler visited Paris he went to the Tomb of Napoleon, and said that one day he would be remembered the same, with only the word Adolf being needed to bring him to immortality. Not those exact words, but you get what I mean. Hitler and Chiang getting massive tombs somewhere, or they being stuck in previously built buildings? I recall they wanted to entomb both Washington and Lincoln under the Capitol Building, but their widows refused. Ahhh, and is Chaing's Wife still alive? I forget if she survived her injuries, or if that was what brought Chiang into that crashing depression at the beginning of the Japanese invasion.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Cylon_Number_14 said:
*Googles André Breton*
He really did meet Trotsky in Mexico City?! And they wrote a book together?! That was an inspired choice for an alt-Prez of France. This was still the Third Republic right? Did Breton Head a coalition of Trotskyists and Socialists and social democrats and radicals or some such?

Meanwhile , the demographics of East Poland is all FUBAR by 1956 with the Jews from the Shoah and millions of Central Asians and Caucasus people shipped in.
Click to expand...
It certainly isn't going to help against Fascist propaganda about Soviets being Mongoloid/Asiatic/other-dated-and-insulting-words. I imagine that, if possible, it would have made an IOTL Nazi invasoin fo he area even more brutal. Plenty of Poles and Balts the Germans figured they could germanize less so these guys. Ahhh, and @CCA who gets sent to the Baltic? Russians and others, since it is some of their more valuable land? And I really do wonder how this all ends up. Culturally, I mean. The Germans like and respect China a lot, the Chinese retain their culture but modernize the economy and government, while India splits into three and the Soviets basically try to change most of the population from ethnic groups to being Homo Sovieticus. Also an insulting word I presume. A lot of propaganda going to be made comparing the Soviets to Mongols, Huns, Manchus, and various other groups that kept invading from the the Steppes? I imagine some movies of the Poles holding against the Mongol invasions (and Muscovy acting as the tax collector and enforcer of the Khans) would go down a treat in European and East Asian cinemas.
 

CCA

Clandango said:
It certainly isn't going to help against Fascist propaganda about Soviets being Mongoloid/Asiatic/other-dated-and-insulting-words. I imagine that, if possible, it would have made an IOTL Nazi invasoin fo he area even more brutal. Plenty of Poles and Balts the Germans figured they could germanize less so these guys. Ahhh, and @CCA who gets sent to the Baltic? Russians and others, since it is some of their more valuable land? And I really do wonder how this all ends up. Culturally, I mean. The Germans like and respect China a lot, the Chinese retain their culture but modernize the economy and government, while India splits into three and the Soviets basically try to change most of the population from ethnic groups to being Homo Sovieticus. Also an insulting word I presume. A lot of propaganda going to be made comparing the Soviets to Mongols, Huns, Manchus, and various other groups that kept invading from the the Steppes? I imagine some movies of the Poles holding against the Mongol invasions (and Muscovy acting as the tax collector and enforcer of the Khans) would go down a treat in European and East Asian cinemas.
Click to expand...

Mostly Russians are used to repopulate the 'regions of politically dubious nationalities' but some politically reliable Ukrainians too.

Generally there are three classes of settlers.

The first is the political unreliable type the sort of folks formerly living in Siberia that have been bought into the cold. They live in camps within the new regions and don't really live a particularly pleasant experience - but it's better than Siberia.

The second is the potentially politically unreliable type that haven't done anything yet - but Stalin thinks they might. These tend to be farmers and former kulaks who are sent to the countryside to live in newly established collective farms.

The third are volunteers and politically reliable people sent to the cities to provide oversight to the new Russian settlers and the extant minorities. They work as factory workers, supervisors and form the top echelon of many of the communist parties in the Polish-Lithuanian Socialist Commonwealth, the Latvian People's Republic, the Estonian Worker's Republic and the various international SSRs.
 

The Southeast

CCA said:
image-20160201-32260-1svvq90.jpeg
Click to expand...
Lol, Walter Ulbricht is in the photo. I assume he has to live there permanently now.
 

The Southeast

Uberbaku said:
haha, probably will get executed after being a long torture and interrogation session with the Gestapo the moment he goes back to Germany
Click to expand...
Which is why he'll never go back. Probably be vaguely remembered as some no-mark exile ITTL.

That reminds me, Honecker's probably still in prison, he'll probably live out the rest of his days in there.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top