Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline

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CCA

Drizzt said:
As in OTL, the main purpose of studing WW2 seems to be to cherry-pick it for examples that support your personal political preferences.
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Wait till I start posting in character threads from the message board divergent histories dot com

Redcoat said:
This isn't a world I want to live in...
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Hey if you discount the insane hyper nationalism, nuclear/bio weapons proliferation and all the low level bush conflicts going on this timeline could be a nicer place to live in
 

Uberbaku

and the USA also has its own internal problems. Jim Crow segregation race relations. CCA, does the civil rights act and racial reforms happen in the USA in this timeline?
 

Uberbaku

I am not surprised with all the hate ans scorn, the loss of India , Australia and NZ from the British empire(all of em probably went Republic), Churchill in this timeline probably died dejected, a recluse and in depression. Churchill probably died in the late 40s kinda like Chamberlain in OTL, died shortly after WW2 started.
 

CCA

Uberbaku said:
and the USA also has its own internal problems. Jim Crow segregation race relations. CCA, does the civil rights act and racial reforms happen in the USA in this timeline?
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Yes it does, but I'm trying to figure out whether it gets delayed by the fact that the USA is more neutral in this TL and doesn't have to compete with communism for moral superiority
 

CCA

CCA said:
Yes it does, but I'm trying to figure out whether it gets delayed by the fact that the USA is more neutral in this TL and doesn't have to compete with communism for moral superiority
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Also with fascism still a part of the cold war and no Holocaust, racism isn't as discredited in this timeline
 

Njörðr

CCA said:
Yes it does, but I'm trying to figure out whether it gets delayed by the fact that the USA is more neutral in this TL and doesn't have to compete with communism for moral superiority
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In OTL, the wars the United States became involved in was a major factor in ending the Jim Crow Law. In addition, the army hated discrimination and the wars in Korea and Vietnam were very decisive in extending American identity to African Americans. Without that, I do not know exactly how Washington could coerce the southern states, perhaps some major event? Some of the Pearl Harbor level, or some axis barbarism in Africa? Something that shows that the fascism is a threat to the United States and everything that it represents but without causing a nuclear war.
 

rjd1997

skarosianlifeform said:
He was a colonialist asshole to be be fair even OTL.
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I won’t be shedding any tears for him.
Drizzt said:
As in OTL, the main purpose of studing WW2 seems to be to cherry-pick it for examples that support your personal political preferences.
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Very true. This seems to be a universal truth of TLs with WW2 equivalents honestly, and considering the crazies online in places like 4chan, I believe it.
Redcoat said:
This isn't a world I want to live in...
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Agreed.
 

Drizzt

Redcoat said:
How?
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Well for starters for the about 2 million (by my rough calculations) more Jews that survived compared to OTL. Then all those Slavs who weren't murdered by the Nazi Occipiers. China had much less of it occupied by the Japanse and despite the post-war famine looks like it'll avoid Mao's Great Leap Of The Cliff.
As long as the 1st amendment holds, Civil Rights will come about in the US sooner or later. Tens of millions of lives in exchange for a later than OTL sounds not exactly dystopic to me.
 

rjd1997

Drizzt said:
Well for starters for the about 2 million (by my rough calculations) more Jews that survived compared to OTL. Then all those Slavs who weren't murdered by the Nazi Occipiers. China had much less of it occupied by the Japanse and despite the post-war famine looks like it'll avoid Mao's Great Leap Of The Cliff.
As long as the 1st amendment holds, Civil Rights will come about in the US sooner or later. Tens of millions of lives in exchange for a later than OTL sounds not exactly dystopic to me.
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Even the comments on this TL make me laugh
 

Uberbaku

CCA I think delayed , and civil rights law probablyis watered down and not as powerful as it is in OTL without USA getting involved in foreign wars, race relations laws improve but slower going in this timeline. However I am not surprised if west coast cities with high Japanese and Chinese populatiosn together like San Fran and LA and even Hawaii get deadly race riots between the Chinese and Japanese Americans. Howwever in this timeline the African American population which is not subjected to heroin and crack epidemics of the 70s to 90s is actually a bit more prosperous and progressive. Crime in the USA is a bit lower in this timeline than OTL Due to the prosperous China USA trade , Chinese Americans get good race relations , as for the Japanese well....
 

rjd1997

One big consequence of US staying neutral in ww2 is no GI bills for returning soldiers, and probobly a smaller baby boom (although there probobly will still be one).
 

rjd1997

skarosianlifeform said:
If it's like OTL, the Filipinos had autonomy in the 30s and independence in 1946, though.
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Would the Philippines remain closer to the US with no Japanese occupation and puppet government interrupting their path to independence? Or perhaps more distant because the US never liberated them so memories of the Philippine-American war are more fresh?
 

Uberbaku

Yah I think the Philippines would still have gotten independence in 1946 or even 1944, (Tyding Mcduffie act in 1934, establishes a ten year transition period to independence for the Philippines), however with the proviso, USA would still maintain its military bases in the Philippines I think the Philippine government would actually be close to the Chinese and the US gov. The Filipino gov. would admire the Chinsee anti collonialist strance(also Philippines has a large Chinese population) but still close to teh USA gov. due to US influence on Philippine economy and gov. I think the Philippines becomes an important component in the upcoming close trade relations between the USA and China. Philppines is also important to China , as the Philippines serves as a important jumping off point for Chinese logsitical support to Anti japanese rebels in the Dutch East Indies(or Japanese East Indies). Im not surprised, southern Philippines have Indonesiean rebel training and supply bases funded by the Chinese. The Japanese pissed off that they cannot do anything about ti, since the USA is protecting the Philippines. The US gov. has prohibited gun and rebel smuggling into British Malaya sicne US gov. wants good relations with Great Britain.
 

Uberbaku

I think the Chinese find it important to deny the Dutch East Indies as a resouce hub for the Japanese empire, hence massive support with the Philippines as a important mid way point for guns, volunteers supplies to the various Indonesian anti Japanese groups. This causes great friction with the USA. and the Japanese of course respond with extreme brutality which fosters more resistance and more outrage in the USA. Not surprised USA , expands the USN esp. in the Pacific to face Japan. as well as getting a nuclear arsenal.
 

Uberbaku

Dutch east indies becomes a resource sink for the Japanese, Japanese are forced to spend a lot of money to try to pacify the place and maintain naval patrols in teh Celebes sea which becomes a hot spot. as the IJN tries to halt gun and guerilla supply line from the PH to the Dutch east Indies. The Japanese will problby fight an expensive guerilla war in the Dutch east indies which impact the already poor japanese economy which is helped by trade with the pro Colohnial axis esp. the british.
 
Alpha-King98760

Alpha-King98760

Uberbaku said:
Dutch east indies becomes a resource sink for the Japanese, Japanese are forced to spend a lot of money to try to pacify the place and maintain naval patrols in teh Celebes sea which becomes a hot spot. as the IJN tries to halt gun and guerilla supply line from the PH to the Dutch east Indies. The Japanese will problby fight an expensive guerilla war in the Dutch east indies which impact the already poor japanese economy which is helped by trade with the pro Colohnial axis esp. the british.
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So the Japanese get their own Vietnam War, eh? I can dig that.
 
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