Your numbers were really close - but in this timeline Zhukov was not purged
Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline
- Thread starter CCA
- Start date
haha, love the latest part btw. my comments below, well it was close but I think the Soviets suffered a lot of casualties, I think the Soviets probably suffered maybe around 500K dead and a thousand or several hundred tanks kaput. Also I am not surprised if half of the Soviet tanks were not T-34s but the older BT-7 and T-26 tanks, note in OTL 1941, eve of barbarossa 90 percent of Soviet tanks were of the BT-7 and T-26 quality, The T-34s achieved superiority in numbers due to the older soviet tanks being destroyed in huge numbers in barbarossa. Even after barbarossa in mid 1942, around 30 to 40 percent of the total Soviet tank force were still BT-7s and T-26 tanks. I reckon the Soviets used most of their inventory of T-34s in the August offensive but still more than half of the Soviet tank force would still have been the older Soviet tanks. I would like to guess that even the Tianjin Type 40 is outmatched by the BT-07s and T-26 tanks but I think that besides teh huge numbers of Chinese tanks commited to blunt the Soviets managed to still inflict heavy damage on teh 980 Soviet tanks o the Soviet 5th tank army. mostly destroyed T-26 and BT-7s, less the T-34s and KV-1, 2,s. I think while the Chinese lost like 85 percent of their tanks. I think the Soviets lost like 50 to 75 percent of their tanks which probalby made the Soviet 5th army pause or get "blunted" again as said chalk it up to 1. Poor soviet tank doctrine and novice tank training and no experience in tank combat. 2. Logistics low ammo and gas. 3. heavy losses. So I think after the battle. teh KMT Chinese have 600 tanks operational vs. like 200 Soviet tanks. However while the Chinese were able to "blunt" the Soviet 5th Tank XXXX, there is a good silver lining, the Chiense manages to capture a bunch of Soviet tanks, esp. a few T-34s or hey how abuot a KV-1
Also how about this suggestion, I think Chang would probably have an Elite tank army or Corps trained by teh Germans , equped with radios in all their tanks. and probably with teh best Chinese tanks the Type 42. I think the battle of Beiping 1942, would probalby prompt him to rapidly build up a credible well trained tank force trained under the German doctrine with all tanks having radios for excellent coodrination. The radio in all tanks coupled with excellent German training, leadership coordiantion accounted for much of the success of the Germans in the first years of the great patriotic war.
Also have the Germans given teh Chinese tech to make this...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust
This would be an excellent addition to the Chinese infantry. make them deadly tot he Entente tanks.
This would be an excellent addition to the Chinese infantry. make them deadly tot he Entente tanks.
The Soft-Underbelly: Operation Unthinkable
The Soft-Underbelly: Operation Unthinkable
With the war grinding to a stall across all the theaters of war, an ambitious amphibious operation which had been planned for a while was given the green light. "Operation Unthinkable" was a massive coalition operation which favoured striking at the vulnerable southern coast of China where not only would the Chinese war effort be dealt a blow with the occupation of much of China's modern industry - but it would also embolden the pro-peace faction in the KMT. With much of the NRA's strength concentrated in the Manchurian front or deployed across the Soviet-Sino border, the blow was centered for the 10th of October 1942 or "Double Ten" day - a holiday which celebrated the outbreak of the Revolution. More than two million men - a large contingent of whom were Indian, Austalian and New Zealand Commonwealth troops along with French Colonial troops and Japanese troops had been carefully assembled for the effort.
Third and fourth-line NRA troops guarded the coast along with Civil Protection militias. Even though on paper numbering 5 million, they were scattered across a wide area and got the dregs of equipment and manpower.
The Darkest Hour
The attack achieved complete operational and tactical success. Southern China was barely defended with the vaunted "Southern Wall" just a mere fiction on the map. The poorly armed, poorly trained third and fourth-line troops and Civil Protection Militia defending the coast were swept away in a tide of naval bombardment, modern tanks and temporary air superiority. Progress was rapid after the landings near Fangcheng swept the initiatl resistance. Fangchenggang fell after only 3 days after the landing and Fangcheng after a week. By the end of October Qinzhou had fallen.
An Extraordinary Legislative Yuan Session
In the context of this, a fifth of the legislative Yuan sponsored a proposal to immediately ask for a ceasefire, withdraw from the alliance with Germany and seek a peace with the Entente. President Chiang immediately boarded a plan to fly from his command outpost in Xi'an to fly to Nanking to address the Yuan and lobby his closest allies.
The Xian Incident
But the plane never got there. Half an hour after takeoff the plane sent out a distress call and the wreckage was later found slammed into the mountain. An investigation would determine a navigation error in the navigation equipment of the plane.
Wang Jingwei assumes power
As Prime Minister, Wang had the legal authority to assume power. Presiding over a mourning Yuan on November 5, he declared a national day of mourning and transferred many of the powers of the Presidential Office to the office of the Prime Minister "until the crisis has passed." The earlier proposal to ask for a ceasefire and withdraw from the alliance with Germany passed. The Entente immediately accepted the ceasefire and negotiations began in earnest for a peace treaty with fighting stopping just outside of Naning. China was now out of the war.
With the war grinding to a stall across all the theaters of war, an ambitious amphibious operation which had been planned for a while was given the green light. "Operation Unthinkable" was a massive coalition operation which favoured striking at the vulnerable southern coast of China where not only would the Chinese war effort be dealt a blow with the occupation of much of China's modern industry - but it would also embolden the pro-peace faction in the KMT. With much of the NRA's strength concentrated in the Manchurian front or deployed across the Soviet-Sino border, the blow was centered for the 10th of October 1942 or "Double Ten" day - a holiday which celebrated the outbreak of the Revolution. More than two million men - a large contingent of whom were Indian, Austalian and New Zealand Commonwealth troops along with French Colonial troops and Japanese troops had been carefully assembled for the effort.
Third and fourth-line NRA troops guarded the coast along with Civil Protection militias. Even though on paper numbering 5 million, they were scattered across a wide area and got the dregs of equipment and manpower.
The Darkest Hour
The attack achieved complete operational and tactical success. Southern China was barely defended with the vaunted "Southern Wall" just a mere fiction on the map. The poorly armed, poorly trained third and fourth-line troops and Civil Protection Militia defending the coast were swept away in a tide of naval bombardment, modern tanks and temporary air superiority. Progress was rapid after the landings near Fangcheng swept the initiatl resistance. Fangchenggang fell after only 3 days after the landing and Fangcheng after a week. By the end of October Qinzhou had fallen.
An Extraordinary Legislative Yuan Session
In the context of this, a fifth of the legislative Yuan sponsored a proposal to immediately ask for a ceasefire, withdraw from the alliance with Germany and seek a peace with the Entente. President Chiang immediately boarded a plan to fly from his command outpost in Xi'an to fly to Nanking to address the Yuan and lobby his closest allies.
The Xian Incident
But the plane never got there. Half an hour after takeoff the plane sent out a distress call and the wreckage was later found slammed into the mountain. An investigation would determine a navigation error in the navigation equipment of the plane.
Wang Jingwei assumes power
As Prime Minister, Wang had the legal authority to assume power. Presiding over a mourning Yuan on November 5, he declared a national day of mourning and transferred many of the powers of the Presidential Office to the office of the Prime Minister "until the crisis has passed." The earlier proposal to ask for a ceasefire and withdraw from the alliance with Germany passed. The Entente immediately accepted the ceasefire and negotiations began in earnest for a peace treaty with fighting stopping just outside of Naning. China was now out of the war.
I'm not sure I like the last update. It just feels so anti-climactic, that Chiang gets killed in a plane crash and then China just drops out of the war like that. The whole premise was of a lasting Chiang/Hitler alliance because of a personal friendship, and now the timeline feels effectively over, unless that was your intent?
Patience - all will be revealed soon (like literally, I'm on a writing binge.)
if your playing Hearts of Iron 4 you might want to wait for the next big update.
The Consolidation and Aftermath
The Consolidation and Aftermath
"The President Chiang Kai-Shek is dead! A treacherous clique of reactionary generals and bureaucrats has attempted to exploit the situation by attacking our embattled soldiers from the rear in order to seize power for themselves and continue the war which President Chiang was about to withdraw from. Therefore the new Government has declared martial law to maintain law and order!"
- Prime Minister Wang Jingwei's first address to the nation.
In the aftermath of the Xian Incident, Prime Minister Wang consolidated power and moved to open peace negotiations. The Bureau of Information and Statistics was placed under the supervision of the National Office of Civil Protection and chief Dai Li was ordered to be taken in for 'questioning.' Like any self-respecting head of a secret police, Dai Li did the sensible thing and disappeared himself before he could be made to disappear. Efforts to track him down proved elusive and it is believed that he was hiding somewhere in Tibet in one of the numerous 'black sites' that the BIS or alternatively he had fled to Germany.
But in the drama of the Xian Incident, the Republic of Manchuria declared itself as the "People's Republic of Manchuria" under Soviet tutelage. The whily Zhang had apparently decided that the Soviets would make for kinder masters than the Japanese. Officially allied with each other - or at the very least - 'co-belligerents' - Tokyo could do nothing. While the Soviet Union kept a million strong 'volunteers' in Manchuria - it rapidly began to withdraw troops and into the Polish-Soviet border where the final reckoning was near. The revolution was coming.
Secret Negotiations begin
Recently declassified archives reveal that during this time Prime Minister Wang had opened secret negotiations with the Soviet Union. In return for Soviet support for the Chinese position in the Entente peace talks, China would not interfere with the Soviet invasion of Europe. The status of the new Manchurian People's Republic was also under negotiation with a request from Wang to have Manchuria placed under the 'de jure' authority of the Republic of China but under the de facto authority of the Soviet Union with numerous concessions. These secret negotiations dragged on the official peace talks being held in Bangkok.
The Japanese lash out.
Frustrated by Soviet betrayal and the slow pace of the talks and a fear that she would be shut out by the Entente powers, Japanese troops continued their advance, launching an offensive on the 15th of December which would take Nanning by the 20th of December. While the Entente officially condemned the action, there was tacit approval for the action in order to force the hand of the new government to speed up the peace talks. Commonwealth, British and French troops followed the Japanese to Nanning where they divided the city under different occupation zones as they had in previously seized cities.
An uprising precipitated Japanese reprisals and mass-executions like this one which spread and grew out of control.
The Rape of Nanning
At first the occupation was calm, but zealous civil protection units and civilion patriots continued a guerilla resistance in the city, launching an uprising on the 23rd which pushed the Entente out of some sectors of the city. Although quickly retaken in the next two days, Japanese reinforcements entering the city would engage in a brutal 'suppression campaign' which would culminate in what is now referred to as the "Rape of Nanning." Frustrated Japanese troops engaged in brutal attrocities across the city, burning down suspected resistance spots en masse, bayonetting civilians and looting. The shocked Entente troops were powerless to stop the massacres and the world was shocked as American correspondents recorded Japanese troops spreading out to the Entente occupation zones where civilians had fled and dragging civilians out who had escaped. Although there were notable moments of resistance, particularly with the sectors held by the Indian troops and the famous "Stand of the Maori Battalion" - Entente complicity in Japanese atrocities featured strongly in Axis propaganda.
China Re-Enters the War
The Rape of Nanning forced President Wang's hand. The Yuan demanded immediate action and the ceasefire agreements broke down immediately as the blood-lusted NRA demanded and launched several local 'revenge offensives.' The Soviet coup in Manchuria had also freed up the Northern front and troops and materiel immediately began to stream down South. By January 15 1943, China was definitely back at War with the Entente, but the question was whether she would re-enter the war to support her German ally when the long-awaited Soviet Invasion arrived, they wouldn't have to wait long to find out...
"The President Chiang Kai-Shek is dead! A treacherous clique of reactionary generals and bureaucrats has attempted to exploit the situation by attacking our embattled soldiers from the rear in order to seize power for themselves and continue the war which President Chiang was about to withdraw from. Therefore the new Government has declared martial law to maintain law and order!"
- Prime Minister Wang Jingwei's first address to the nation.
In the aftermath of the Xian Incident, Prime Minister Wang consolidated power and moved to open peace negotiations. The Bureau of Information and Statistics was placed under the supervision of the National Office of Civil Protection and chief Dai Li was ordered to be taken in for 'questioning.' Like any self-respecting head of a secret police, Dai Li did the sensible thing and disappeared himself before he could be made to disappear. Efforts to track him down proved elusive and it is believed that he was hiding somewhere in Tibet in one of the numerous 'black sites' that the BIS or alternatively he had fled to Germany.
But in the drama of the Xian Incident, the Republic of Manchuria declared itself as the "People's Republic of Manchuria" under Soviet tutelage. The whily Zhang had apparently decided that the Soviets would make for kinder masters than the Japanese. Officially allied with each other - or at the very least - 'co-belligerents' - Tokyo could do nothing. While the Soviet Union kept a million strong 'volunteers' in Manchuria - it rapidly began to withdraw troops and into the Polish-Soviet border where the final reckoning was near. The revolution was coming.
Secret Negotiations begin
Recently declassified archives reveal that during this time Prime Minister Wang had opened secret negotiations with the Soviet Union. In return for Soviet support for the Chinese position in the Entente peace talks, China would not interfere with the Soviet invasion of Europe. The status of the new Manchurian People's Republic was also under negotiation with a request from Wang to have Manchuria placed under the 'de jure' authority of the Republic of China but under the de facto authority of the Soviet Union with numerous concessions. These secret negotiations dragged on the official peace talks being held in Bangkok.
The Japanese lash out.
Frustrated by Soviet betrayal and the slow pace of the talks and a fear that she would be shut out by the Entente powers, Japanese troops continued their advance, launching an offensive on the 15th of December which would take Nanning by the 20th of December. While the Entente officially condemned the action, there was tacit approval for the action in order to force the hand of the new government to speed up the peace talks. Commonwealth, British and French troops followed the Japanese to Nanning where they divided the city under different occupation zones as they had in previously seized cities.
An uprising precipitated Japanese reprisals and mass-executions like this one which spread and grew out of control.
The Rape of Nanning
At first the occupation was calm, but zealous civil protection units and civilion patriots continued a guerilla resistance in the city, launching an uprising on the 23rd which pushed the Entente out of some sectors of the city. Although quickly retaken in the next two days, Japanese reinforcements entering the city would engage in a brutal 'suppression campaign' which would culminate in what is now referred to as the "Rape of Nanning." Frustrated Japanese troops engaged in brutal attrocities across the city, burning down suspected resistance spots en masse, bayonetting civilians and looting. The shocked Entente troops were powerless to stop the massacres and the world was shocked as American correspondents recorded Japanese troops spreading out to the Entente occupation zones where civilians had fled and dragging civilians out who had escaped. Although there were notable moments of resistance, particularly with the sectors held by the Indian troops and the famous "Stand of the Maori Battalion" - Entente complicity in Japanese atrocities featured strongly in Axis propaganda.
China Re-Enters the War
The Rape of Nanning forced President Wang's hand. The Yuan demanded immediate action and the ceasefire agreements broke down immediately as the blood-lusted NRA demanded and launched several local 'revenge offensives.' The Soviet coup in Manchuria had also freed up the Northern front and troops and materiel immediately began to stream down South. By January 15 1943, China was definitely back at War with the Entente, but the question was whether she would re-enter the war to support her German ally when the long-awaited Soviet Invasion arrived, they wouldn't have to wait long to find out...
A narrative interlude set in the Zagros Mountains of Persia
A narrative interlude set in the Zagros Mountains of Persia
14 March
Chiang Wei-kuo was a man without a home. He couldn't go back to China because of a lingering fear that perhaps his father's death was not as accidental as it could've been. Coded communications from his mother had all but warned him to stay away. He couldn't go back to Germany either where his wife Geli was waiting for him with their son Adolf. The recent invasion of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union had forced Germany to keep whatever precious resources she had at home so there was no prospect of an airship to take him away. And so he sat - or rather crawled and squatted underneath the narrow bunkers and tunnels that harbored what remained of the Persian resistance and the Sino-German elements that had come to advice them. But the situation was bleak. He looked over the tables in front of him: stores of ammunition, food and medicine were all running low and there was no prospect of resupply either.
"Boss, we've got an incoming transmission."
One of his men broke his reverie.
"I'll come on over."
He climbed up the rope ladder to the top of the caves where the radio could pick up and send transmissions.
"This is RAS Hindenburg, requesting permission to land. We have supplies and some special visitors over."
"Is this a mistake? Christmas was about three months ago over."
"Not a mistake. This is a special supply run over."
"All right all right. You can set down over.
"We're sending over coordinates for a hidden slope where you can set down comfortably. We'll meet you there in a couple of hours."
The trek to the slope took some time but Chiang was curious to know who the visitors were. He wouldn't normally come along to a supply run, but since there hadn't been one since Christmas and there were special visitors - that piqued his interest.
When he got there he nearly fainted.
"Li? Skorzeny? What do I owe the pleasure of having the two most dangerous bastards in the world pay us a personal visit."
Li flashed him a rare smile, Chiang shuddered internally.
"We have reliable intelligence that your father is alive and well and being held captive near the Mongolian border. We have two companies of the best goddamn special forces that the Reich -"
"And the Bureau - "
" - has to offer."
"You must be bored here. Are you in?"
Chiang thought very carefully and then gave his answer.
Could you really say no to a face like this?
14 March
Chiang Wei-kuo was a man without a home. He couldn't go back to China because of a lingering fear that perhaps his father's death was not as accidental as it could've been. Coded communications from his mother had all but warned him to stay away. He couldn't go back to Germany either where his wife Geli was waiting for him with their son Adolf. The recent invasion of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union had forced Germany to keep whatever precious resources she had at home so there was no prospect of an airship to take him away. And so he sat - or rather crawled and squatted underneath the narrow bunkers and tunnels that harbored what remained of the Persian resistance and the Sino-German elements that had come to advice them. But the situation was bleak. He looked over the tables in front of him: stores of ammunition, food and medicine were all running low and there was no prospect of resupply either.
"Boss, we've got an incoming transmission."
One of his men broke his reverie.
"I'll come on over."
He climbed up the rope ladder to the top of the caves where the radio could pick up and send transmissions.
"This is RAS Hindenburg, requesting permission to land. We have supplies and some special visitors over."
"Is this a mistake? Christmas was about three months ago over."
"Not a mistake. This is a special supply run over."
"All right all right. You can set down over.
"We're sending over coordinates for a hidden slope where you can set down comfortably. We'll meet you there in a couple of hours."
The trek to the slope took some time but Chiang was curious to know who the visitors were. He wouldn't normally come along to a supply run, but since there hadn't been one since Christmas and there were special visitors - that piqued his interest.
When he got there he nearly fainted.
"Li? Skorzeny? What do I owe the pleasure of having the two most dangerous bastards in the world pay us a personal visit."
Li flashed him a rare smile, Chiang shuddered internally.
"We have reliable intelligence that your father is alive and well and being held captive near the Mongolian border. We have two companies of the best goddamn special forces that the Reich -"
"And the Bureau - "
" - has to offer."
"You must be bored here. Are you in?"
Chiang thought very carefully and then gave his answer.
Could you really say no to a face like this?
Dammit Japan! You couldn’t leave well enough alone, could you? Just had to do a Rape of Nanking by a different name, eh?
Just one thing: Chiang Wei-kuo is actually NOT CKS's biological son. He was born a love child of Dai Jitao, an early revolutionary comrade of CKS, and a Japanese woman. CKS adopted him as a favour to Dai in order to prevent a disaster in the family.
Unless, of course, TTL's CWK is a totally different person...
Marc A
Unless, of course, TTL's CWK is a totally different person...
Marc A
Yeah I knew that, but OTL it was a pretty well kept secret and it still will be here