Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline
- Thread starter CCA
- Start date
Not really Nazi Germany is just that damn evil. Atrocities were instrumental in the Nazi regime’s nature and indeed the whole point of their war making. With the Allies war crimes were incidental and unfortunate side-effect of total war and wouldn’t extend beyond the war into outright genocide the way the Germans had planned for say the Poles & Russians..
I’m more interested in what effect all this is having on the Russians. The Far Eastern military districts had huge numbers of troops facing the Japanese OTL. But with the Japanese now facing a bigger, harder war in China and a pro-Axis China then Stalin wont be so concerned by any Japanese threat and indeed may offer some support to their war-effort. A later Soviet invasion of East Turkistan maybe, then extending joint Anglo-Soviet control over Tibet to link up with the British forces in India. Is possible, assuming Hitler’s inevitably screws up by trying to fight Britain and the U.S.S.R at the same time. (I doubt China will be any help against the Red Army without pushing things to ASB level Chiang-wank)
Evilprodigy
Donor
I agree with you on all those terms but you seem to forget that China has 10 million soldiers all fully armed, in comparison at the end of OTL WWII the USA had only 3 million soldiers after total war mode had gone on, the Soviets had about 2.25 million troops at the end of WWII as well so China has massive weight of numbers on its side, China had 511,078,000 People in OTL 1937 so 10 million people in the army is not much of a dent in the population, it is only 1.957% of their population
Numbers aren’t the only factor, over the course of OTL’s war, China had massive numerical superiority over the IJA. Which was fighting a multi-front war and was in many ways a WW1 army. The KMT forces still got badly mauled. So even if China makes great strides in TTL it wont match the IJA in terms of battle prowess for quite some time. Added to that the fact the IJA is waaay behind the British, Soviets and USA. Who will field truly modern mechanized armies. Backed by modern airforces and much superior military-industrial base and state apparatus.
So, those 10 million troops wont accomplish much, if 8 million of them are armed with pitchforks & muskets. Hell, even in OTL the KMT couldn’t beat the PLA, who were a light-infantry-based, guerrilla army.
So, those 10 million troops wont accomplish much, if 8 million of them are armed with pitchforks & muskets. Hell, even in OTL the KMT couldn’t beat the PLA, who were a light-infantry-based, guerrilla army.
Evilprodigy
Donor
Well considering the mass modernization of China and the far more stable economy and countryside the troops will be far better then OTL, i believe that it was posted before that the Chinese Army was as modern as the German one was, and Japan's multi front war IOTL is strange as the IJA foungt in China and the IJN fought everywhere else, so the IJA will be the same ones who attacked China IOTL regardless of a multi front war. The Americans had the same thing, the Navy fought in the Pacific and the Army fought in Europe.
Arming and training -and suppling- that many people is going to be an undertaking of colossal proportions, I don't care how industrialized TTL's China is.
Evilprodigy
Donor
I agree, but fact of the matter is they have alot of people who know what to do with their guns... but no matter what you or I say it will not change the result, personnaly I am routing for China, because they are the main nation ITTL so i will agree with them even id they burn Toronto to the ground
This TL's China is about as Industrialized as OTL WWII Italy was. Considering modernization started all the way in 1923 and with a more stable nation leading to increased industrial investment leading to a greater industrial base to build on I don't regard this as wanky. Besides China's industrialization and 'modernization' is going to have massive, massive problems attached to it as I will reveal in a later update
Evilprodigy
Donor
So is that as in China makes as many goods from it's industry as Italy's or is it related to the population like there is 1 factory for every say 50,000 people or is it by terms of how efficiant the factories are or what?
if Japan is out producing you, then I think you might have a problem.....
...which reminds me....the warlords aren't all gone, right?
Haha, but you're forgetting, Japan still has to ship whatever it produces across a submarine and land-mine infested sea...
The warlords are all gone with the except of one - Zhang Zhoulin who has proclaimed himself Emperor of Manchouko - there's a map at the other page showing the extent of his realm...
Evilprodigy
Donor
Depends on how much of Japan's materials are made in Korea and Manchouko... not much i take it but it is at least a land route
lets just hope the Americans do not give the Japanese radar
Well, it's far better than they did OTL, in terms of output and China will likely hold onto more land & cities than OTL. Still because of they way things are working out China is doing better than OTL but is an overall, net drain on the Axis as I assume Japan will be hostile to a Sinophile Germany. And also toobogged down in China to trouble the Soviets or Allies too much.
Gross Domestic Product in 1937
Gross Domestic Product in 1937
Axis Powers:
China - 141
Germany - 351
Italy* - 149
Total: 641
Triple Entete:
France* - 186
Japan - 169
Manchuoko - 45
United Kingdom* - 284
Total: 684
Neutral:
Soviet Union - 359
United States of America - 800
* - not formally involved in war at this point...
There are a few things to enter into consideration at this point too:
Japan can freely trade with her allies France and United Kingdom as they have control of the seas. Chinese trade with Italy and Germany have to be rerouted all the way to Afghanistan and Iran through to Turkey to the Balkans and finally into Germany/Italy...
GDP does not necessarily equal military production, but it's a useful indicator of relative economic strenght. Japan/Germany/China are authoritarian regimes that have moblized for war and are much quicker in converting from GDP to Military Production.
China trades freely with both the United States and the Soviet Union, both nations want China's rare metals such as tungsten as well as Chinese silver dollars. Both are willing to furnish industrial and military equipment as well as 'technical assistance' in exchange.
Axis Powers:
China - 141
Germany - 351
Italy* - 149
Total: 641
Triple Entete:
France* - 186
Japan - 169
Manchuoko - 45
United Kingdom* - 284
Total: 684
Neutral:
Soviet Union - 359
United States of America - 800
* - not formally involved in war at this point...
There are a few things to enter into consideration at this point too:
Japan can freely trade with her allies France and United Kingdom as they have control of the seas. Chinese trade with Italy and Germany have to be rerouted all the way to Afghanistan and Iran through to Turkey to the Balkans and finally into Germany/Italy...
GDP does not necessarily equal military production, but it's a useful indicator of relative economic strenght. Japan/Germany/China are authoritarian regimes that have moblized for war and are much quicker in converting from GDP to Military Production.
China trades freely with both the United States and the Soviet Union, both nations want China's rare metals such as tungsten as well as Chinese silver dollars. Both are willing to furnish industrial and military equipment as well as 'technical assistance' in exchange.