Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline

[Wyragen-TXRG4P]

Those bat bombs could perhaps be dropped from some strato-airship bombers...

Airships could also drop countless cluster-bombs, small but with a high density and good aerodynamism.
They would be mass-produced and not very efficient against armoured vehicules with tracks but would be lethal for infantry over large areas, cause extensive fires.

Also the industrial base for a Navy has been developing in South China for quite some time. That's why most ships will be built by Guangzhou. Only Guangzhou shipyards (and Shanghai) are really capable of building Capital class ships.

It would be nice if in the latter part of the 20th centhury(or the early 21st), much ofGuangdonghttp://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong become one giant indutrial zone, a true mega-city with +100 millions inhabitants and factories the size of city-blocs.

 

[Nivek]

Replies to people: (not an update)


Nivek:

P.S. How are the India Situation, they will still listen the dove of Ghandi or accept the most realisitc alternative of the Netaji (maybe if the Sitzkrieg and fall of france is worst for the Entente)

- The India situation will be... a volatile one in this TL. There's going to be lots of money and arms poured down India in an attempt to start a mutiny. Will they succeed? Read on

P.S.2. what will do John Rabe(aka the Good man of Nanjing) in TTL,???

The Good German of Nanking will have a prominent role to play later. Good men will always be good men who speak out against evil in all forms...

P.S you're a men or women???

- Birn, born and bred male

OKH:

*POSSIBLE SPOILER* Nuke? *END POSSIBLE SPOILER*

*Spoiler* That or a space programme. Could be both! * End Spoiler*


This gives rise to the question of "Will Germany still carry out the Final Solution?"

Yes and no. Hitler is still anti-semetic, but he's a lot more of a normal family person. So his most destructive tendencies have been curbed somewhat. I'm toying with the idea of making Geli Raubel his morality pet with Geli even being a member of the "White Rose" movement. Of course as she's the favourite niece she won't be harmed.


- Think strato airships Not even planes can touch some of these babies. Of course the strato-airships are far and few in between. The airships are mostly used as makeshift railways - being connected by wires to provinces where railways are too hard to build. Imagine a wire with a zeppelin connected and hooked to it. Airships will also be used for airborne assaults (at least until the Chinese learn that dropping paratroopers using giant gas filled flamable baloons may not be the smartest of ideas.

And may I assume that these were mainly used for bombing missions? Or were they used as aircraft carriers?

A bit of both. I'll do an update on "Chinese Air Force Modernization" soon. Let's just say that Chiang develops a Hitleresque obsession with "Wonder Weapons" with the construction and development of an Airship capable of bombing London from Chinese territory one of the key priorities...

Thanks for the links! Those bat bombs could perhaps be dropped from some strato-airship bombers...

Dathi:

Well, China will be a case of Villains With Good Publicity. They have genuine historicall grievances against both the French, English and Japanese - the wife of the Head of State speaks flawless English and is very PR-savvy. Let's just say that TTL Axis will play a lot more on the whole "National Liberation of Oppressed Minorities" thing...


Wyragen:

How usefull is that fleet going to be? Naval forces would defend the coastal regions from an invasion from Taiwan while submarines would hit shipping between japan and the mainland but except for that, what else? How is anti-tank weapon production going and which side will strike first? China might be preparing an unification war but Japan might well attempt to "secure Manchuria from Chinese Imperialism".

Also, it might be interesting if some German units fought on the Chinese side in the coming conflict.

- Thanks, The fleet is either going to be very useful or end up as a white elephant and is sunk in the first 2 weeks of the conflict. Keep in mind that the Sino-German alliance is present at high levels. Even with the 'cold snap' in Sino-German relations, the Chinese General Staff and the German General Staff are still envisioning sweeping aside the English fleet to link up in the Indian Ocean (with Italian help)

The Kiat:

The Chinese Navy in WWII, an interesting concept. Seems like quite an industrial challenge for a warring states era China to meet.

- Just remember that China hasn't been warring states since 1928. Also the industrial base for a Navy has been developing in South China for quite some time. That's why most ships will be built by Guangzhou. Only Guangzhou shipyards (and Shanghai) are really capable of building Capital class ships.

Dan Reiley:

I do however wonder, is the US going to be getting involved in WWII at all in this TL?

*Spoiler*
- American Intervention - or at least the threat of it - will end the war
*Spoiler*

The Vulture:

With China's growing militarism and increasingly obvious ties to fascist ideology, what is the popular (rather than political) sentiment in the US and Commonwealth (particularly India)?

- The Popular sentiment in the US is quite sympathetic to China. Most of the chattering and middle classes find Madame Chiang's Southern Accented - weekly radio broadcasts quite compelling...

IN the Commonwealth - NZ and Australia are convinced that the Chinese Yellow Peril will take over the world. They beef up defence spending accordingly. In a coming Imperial Conference the defence strategy for a two-front war against China and Germany are outlined...

In India? Chinese agents whisper plots of rebellion and supply money and guns to anyone who will listen. India is stirring...

Nivek:

well i said good bye, the tl is improving every day and wish the best of success for this(like won the Turtledove, is hard but possible)

- Are you leaving ?

Thanks for all your support so far - I really do appreciate it - you've been commenting since from the start and you've always kept me going. If I'm not misreading your post and you are leaving then you shall be missed. Good luck with your studies (I'm personally doing an honours degree in Politics and Economics and I know how hard the workload can be) and thanks for all your feedback.

If I do win the Turtledove that will of course be amazing. But I will personally be voting for Geekhis Khan's TL. (Link: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=128375 )
His work shows a level of research and polish that is normally reserved for finished TL's and I take my hat off to him and his excellent TL. He deserves to win. Maybe Version 2 of Chiang Kai-shek goes to Germany will have a shot!


Right. Update up soon. (In about an hour if AH.COM doesnt crash...)

You Misunderstood my clousure bro, but again i do that very late in the night in my GMT and maybe for that i don't notice some gramatical 'horrors', in fact maybe i will extremly busy register my Asigment(and in my University: Universidad del Magdalena) we have a lot of issues with that

and like you said, Geekhis Khan deserverd a lot(in fact he made count the lost history of facist Italy and their true archictect, Balbo), but again who made a extremly good Counterfactual scenario too and deserved in the competition,

thanks for the answer will help to obtain the big picture and to freak us when you make the scenario

And about the USA: I'm a not a Expertise in American Political Culture and social thinking, but again post WW1 fiasco(thanks to Wood Wilson), and the SMC, Isolationism was a main post topic in america(but again the US marines is the best private guard of the history), and maybe the americans now will sells to all side who have the ability to pay. i will comment more when i have more knowledge of the topic

Well thanks for all, wish success with the TL and the Turtledoves

Att

Nivek Von Beldo

 

[DuQuense]

?What is happening with Madame Chiang's two sisters? IIRC all three sisters married well.

 

[Wyragen-TXRG4P]

WW2

If it doesn´t start on schedule, I suspect it would start later rather than earlier.

 

[CCA]

Conclusion + The Soong Sisters

Overall, 1934 was a dark year for the Republic of China. Her two key allies had proven unreliable and she was forced to seek alternatives. Nontheless as the western democracies stagnated under the burden of the Great Depression and revolts, strikes and rebellions bought the political system to a screeching halt - it seems as though China was in a relatively good position, enough of a good position that President Chiang Kai-shek called for an election for October 1935...

The Soong Sisters

A photo of the Soong Sisters

One married money, one monied power, one married China.

- Traditional Saying

The Soong Sisters would be known as history's most powerful female figures. At varous points in the Republic of China the three effectively ran China - whether directly or through influencing their husbands. The three skillfully used money, power and sex appeal to successfully steer the course of China until 1970.

- H.H Kung and Soong Ailing

Ailing was the sister who married money. H.H Kung was China's richest man - his decision to side with the KMT at a crucial junction at the Battle of Shanghai meant that he was able to reap large rewards at the expense of the business people and gentry who had sided with Big Eared Du. H.H Kung was also the elected mayor of Shanghai - giving him a solid powerbase in the factional games of the Kuomintang. Ailing was perceived to be avaricious and greedy. An urban legend attributes Ailing Kung sequestering an airship to evacuate one of their villas. Nontheless, despite their unpopularity - money in Republican China talked. Silver bullets were still as deadly as they were before and it was long before Ailing and her husband had an informal web of paid informers and assasins - ready to indulge in the deadly game of politics. There was, after all, going to be an election next year. Broadly speaking, Kung and Ailing were alligned with T.V Soong's "White" faction.

- Soong Chingling seductively reading a book

Soong Chingling was the sister who married power. Her first husband was the founder of the Kuomintang and of the Republic of China - the revered Sun Yat-sen. She would exploit her prestigious surname for all that it was worth in the 1935 election as she campaigned against Chiang Kai-shek for the presidency. Chingling was known as the passionate and mercurial syster - with a burning fire for social justice. She found a fellow soul in Wang Jingwei - beginning a passionate love affair that would ultimately culminate in marriage. For now however, Soong was content to act as Wang's 'stalking horse' by running against Chiang Kai-shek. This allowed Wang to publically support Chiang and appear to be loyal to the Triumverate without openly undermining Chiang. Chingling was obviously a member of Wang Jingwei's "Red" faction.

- Soong Meiling and President Chiang Kai-shek
It was the third and youngest sister that married China. Although Soong "Madame Chiang Kai-shek" was the model of an obedient and traditional wife in the 1935 election - behind the scenes she ran Chiang's election campaign. She was a masterful genius of propaganda - earning the epithet "The Chinese Goebbells" and her weekly broadcasts to America gave Chiang's presidency legitemacy. Though she played a prominent role in 1935 - it was afterwards and in the Second Reunification War that she would shine.

(Sorry for the time taken to update. As I've said in NPC - my best friend has recently confessed her romantic feelings to me after a long overseas trip - converting a previously unrequited love to a requited one. Needless to say we spent the whole weekend catching up.)

Thanks to everyone for their kind feedback and comments and the unexpected support I've received in the Turtledoves. Although I stand by my original endorsement for Geekhis's amazing Viva Balbo, I am nontheless flaterred and humbled by the level of support for this TL. A very sincere thank you to all my fans - especially Hendryk who has provided excellent advice.

Next Update: 1935 - The Generalissimo and the Widow.

 

[The Vulture]

A: hope everything went well with your friend.

B: excellent update, as always. The idea of a "Chinese Goebbels" is an interesting one, and I for one would love to know more about the Chinese propaganda machine. Do the Chinese turn out propaganda films like Triumph of the Will? Is there laws requiring people to turn up the volume when a radio broadcast is made, like in OTL Germany?

Propaganda was always something that interested me.

 

[ComradeTovarich]

Next Update: 1935 - The Generalissimo and the Widow.

I smell a King Solomon+Bathsheba style affair.

One thing, have you thought of adding marines and paratroopers to the Chinese order of battle? It'll be cool to see them in action.

EDIT: By the looks of it... it appears that your NPC thread has been hijacked. Anyways, all the best in your new relationship . Remember: Who Dares Wins!

 

[The Vulture]

Oh, another quick thought: What's Siam/ Thailand doing in all this? After the 1932 coup (unless butterflies did away with that), there was a lot of anti-Chinese sentiment (propagated in part by Plaek and to a lesser extent Phahonyothin). Will Chiang stand for that? Could he attempt to undermine Thailand politically or possibly court them for a military alliance? After all, French Indochina and British Burma are right there, and after the unrest earlier, Chiang has great reason to love either of them. Strategically, Thailand could be an important ally for him, or alternately a bitter enemy.

 

[Hendryk]

I knew the Song sisters would show up. Which is a good thing, they were fascinating figures.

Soong Qinging was the sister who married power.

Interesting inversion from OTL, where she's the one who went down in history as having married China.

BTW, this is another of my hairsplitting nitpicks, but if you spell her personal name Qingling, then best to spell her family name Song, otherwise you're using two different transliterations at the same time.

 

[tallwingedgoat]

Airships might actually be pretty useful ferrying supplies once the Japanese take the ports. Although where would they find a friendly country I can't imagine, since both Britain and Russia would be China's enemies it would seem.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Great update! Got to hand it to Chingling: seductively reading is a masterful skill for a Femme Fatal among educated circles. You really make the historical figures come alive in this.

Congrats on the at last requited love and congrats on the good showing in the TD race. As I said earlier this TL is well worthy of the honor and I'll be the first to congratulate you if you win it (as as of posting this, you're ahead by a vote!).

 

[Wyragen-TXRG4P]

Airships might actually be pretty useful ferrying supplies once the Japanese take the ports.

It is doubtfull the Japanese will be able to seize any Chinese harbour in this case, at least not any important one. Manchuria may be another matter.

Perhapse Japan goes first to war with soviet-union before turning toward China, in any case the country must be even more militarised than IOTL. Will Australia and NZ assist the Japanese in some ways? Have they started raising larger armies than IOTL?

 

[Nivek]

Well, first of all: Congratulations for your now Requited love with your best friend, is something good when you won a love...

well now, for the end of the series of update:

Good Description of the Soong Sisters *destiny, like your said and Hendryk said too, both make a major impact in the History of the modern China(both OTL and TTL), and their description help to show than China is Still nominally a 'democracy' even in the future start to aply more authoritarian measures(who are mandatory in every war, the americans can said that), and the allusion of 'Chinesse Goebbles' was priceless(but very OTL).

well like someone said, here the Airship wil have a great role(like Edt said, if every TL make in early 20th century MUST have Airship) and waiting to see some in action(in the reconquest of Manchuria aka Second Reunification War)

About the Japanesse(for Wyragen-TXRG4P)... like i said over nine thousand times... their are the Wild Card of Asia, their actions(or lack of this one), will make the geopolitical 'friction' necessary to form the *factions in This *WW2, and the strikes with the soviets happen after they invade the Chinesse(Changkufeng Incident was in August of 1939) and try to invade some Outer Mongolia Area(soviet infulence area)), that will happen here i don't know, i think they will strike for manchuria again like OTL(but i like in very HOI fashion, who the japanesse will be kicked out for the Mainland Asia, including Korea)

About the British and their dominons, if their still a lot of Self-Righteous like OTL, they still will have their Pacific fleet and install the White Dominon policy and again, and If the Support the Japanesse, that will have some butterflies(specially with the USA, because without USA, the British Empire is dooomed)

well, again congratuations for your love, i wish the best of luck with her.

Att

Nivek von Beldo

P.S. the tiger will fly in china in TTL??(aka the Flying Tiger will appeared)

P.S.2. Chiang will havr Another Biopic but now make for the nazis for propaganda in china??

 

[Wyragen-TXRG4P]

Foreign volunteers,

Aussies and antifaschists on Japanes side and German units on Chinese side?

Will there be a civil war in TTL Spain? If yes, will China send some (symbolic) help to the nationalists?

 

[The Vulture]

Oh, what of Macau? Portugal might very well end up fighting on the Allied side if pushed hard enough.

 

[Wyragen-TXRG4P]

Bumpov,

When will the Daqing oilfields be discovered?

 

[Wyragen-TXRG4P]

So what?

Sick or busy?

 

[CCA]

1. University.
2. Girlfriend.
3. Labour Party
4. Mates.

There will be an update fairly shortly hopefully.

I guarantee that there will be a glut of updates post-exams though! (like 1 a day)

 

[ComradeTovarich]

Woah... I'm juggling two timelines with whatever you just mentioned except for (2), (3) and a minor modification to (1)(high school or Singapore's equivalent to it).

Anyways... Looking forward to the next update and hoping that it doesn't get eaten up by AH.com

All the best for your exams, whenever they may be.

 

[The Vulture]

Good luck on your exams, friend. I look forward to the update when it arrives, but there's no great hurry.