Chiang accepts Indochina

I hate it when people do this but nonetheless I've just been on a wikipedia browse and stumbled upon something interesting of which I was unaware- the Americans offered French Indo-China to Chiang Kai Shek during WW2 and he refused it.

Does anyone know anything more about this? Seems really weird to me that America would do that and risk annoying the French so much....

But what if it did happen?
Then we've got a rather big area of Chinese occupation....
 
I hate it when people do this but nonetheless I've just been on a wikipedia browse and stumbled upon something interesting of which I was unaware- the Americans offered French Indo-China to Chiang Kai Shek during WW2 and he refused it.

Does anyone know anything more about this? Seems really weird to me that America would do that and risk annoying the French so much....

But what if it did happen?
Then we've got a rather big area of Chinese occupation....

Probably because the Vietnamese hate China for occupying them for 1000 years or so, and Chiang was too busy trying to keep his position from collapsing as is.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
Probably because the Vietnamese hate China for occupying them for 1000 years or so, and Chiang was too busy trying to keep his position from collapsing as is.

What they said....

He was not stupid enough to want to gain another area that would draw away resources from his main goals.

Had it been a gain to him he would have leaped at it - as it was he would not touch it with a dirty stick.
 
Does anyone know anything more about this? Seems really weird to me that America would do that and risk annoying the French so much...
FDR was...not a fan of DeGaulle or the French Empire. That's not enough to explain why the Americans would offer French Indochina to Jiang specifically, but it goes part of the way to explaining why they weren't terribly concerned with annoying the French. The rest is probably explained by the weakness of the French political and military weakness vis a vis the Americans at the time. It didn't matter to the Americans overmuch if they annoyed the French, because what were the French going to do about it?
 
I could see Ho fighting the Chinese. What would happen when the communists take over. if Mao tries to keep Indo China then the Vietnam war is an intramural struggle in the Communist world.
 
He should've put the VNQDD in power as a puppet regime/possible place to go into exile.

Consider if Indochina/Vietnam became the equivalent of Eastern/Central Europe for the KMT, the KMT being White Russians.
 
FDR was...not a fan of DeGaulle or the French Empire. That's not enough to explain why the Americans would offer French Indochina to Jiang specifically, but it goes part of the way to explaining why they weren't terribly concerned with annoying the French. The rest is probably explained by the weakness of the French political and military weakness vis a vis the Americans at the time. It didn't matter to the Americans overmuch if they annoyed the French, because what were the French going to do about it?

Yes it seems (to me) as though having recognised the Vichy regeme as the legitimate government of France in 1940, the US went out of their way to annoy DeGaulle. They didn't want to liberate France only to turn it over to him - hence things like the "liberation currency" which was issued to allied troops pre-D-day. DeGaulle however was much better at playing the political game than they were and the US was (post liberation of Paris) left with a fait accompli DeGaulle government.

And of course this also played havoc with post-war US-French relations. All-in-all not some of foggy bottom's best work.
 
Ho and Giap would have fought the Chinese- as would many of the anti-Communists. Lest we forget, OTL, Vietnam fought the PRC in 1979.
 
Hmm I don't think that Chiang would accept or even seek to control Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia through direct means. That would be beyond the pale of his resources after all, however as a sphere of influence that makes sense and would also reflect historical cultural norms.

What I feel is more likely is that one of the local leaders, such as the governor in Guangxi (can't remember his name) would take the lead on supplying the resistance forces against the Japanese. Now the POD for this to occur is relatively easy as Viet Minh only barely convinced the Nationalists to cooperate with them in OTL. If that is avoided and a couple of key members have accidents then we could have a pro Nationalist, Anti Japanese resistance front which would be interesting.

As other board members have asserted that role would probably have been conducted by the VNQD, provided that it could broaden its political base and that it held more astute politicians. One of the problems of the OTL was the lack of a unified anti communist opposition. However a unified front led by the VNQDD would probably lead them into the key bargaining positions with the French post WW II.
That circumstance would be fascinating as if in OTL the Nationalists occupy the northern half of the country. Now them leaving could be contingent on greater autonomy for their allies the VNQDD in the North.
 
The US went out of the way to annoy De Gaulle?:eek:

Now there stands an intriguing view of history. De Gaulle consistently failed to show that he could command or deliver French strength to the Allied cause so there was no reason for the US to recognize him as the leader of France.
 
Probably because the Vietnamese hate China for occupying them for 1000 years or so, and Chiang was too busy trying to keep his position from collapsing as is.

I'm not asking why he turned it down, that's obvious (though easily fixed by idiotic megalomania), I'm asking about if it actually was seriously offered and why.
 
The US went out of the way to annoy De Gaulle?:eek:

Now there stands an intriguing view of history. De Gaulle consistently failed to show that he could command or deliver French strength to the Allied cause so there was no reason for the US to recognize him as the leader of France.

:confused: most of the french colonial empire counts as nothing?

As opposed to us choices like Darlan and Giraud who had no support from anyone outside Washington?

Aha! By 'intriguing' you mean accurate. I understand now.


Sure, de Gaulle had a massively inflated view of himself and France. Sure, he had an ego problem. But he's what we had to work with.

It worked better for everyone to view France as de Gaulles free french than laval fascist regime.
 
Most of the French colonial empire came over to the Allies in the sense of recognizing that they had been militarily occupied by same.

Meanwhile France as a nation supported Vichy, which was why the US and UK maintained ties to the bitter end, especially so for the British.
 

Archibald

Banned
It is more complex than that. Bloody Pétain was actually voted full powers late june 1940. He inherited from the metropole, the army, the parliament... the illusion lasted, what, two years ? then Torch happened, and Vichy was invaded, and the allies switched side with the Free French.
But not with De Gaulle initially: with Giraud ! don't forget him.
Giraud is the key - Roosevelt clearly prefered him. Giraud was clearly more easy to deal with than De Gaulle, that's a fact. He was also rather weak of a character, kind of puppet. De Gaulle had no problem outsmarting him.

As for Indochina given to Chiang - good riddance ! Shit, it would avoid thirty years of suffering and millions of death at the hands of the french, the americans, and bloody Pol Pot. France would also reconstruct faster and easier from 1945 (although war for Algeria will be probably unavoidable).
Oh, and Leclerc death would be butterflied away.
 
I think FDR was testing Chiang, if Chiang accepted that offer FDR could conclude that Chiang was an ambitious imperialist other than a prudent and rational partner to be dealt with. It's not for serious.
 
Top