Chetniks win control of Yugoslavia, what next?

So lets assume that the Chetniks pervail over Tito with the help of the western allies and the Royal Government returns from abroad. Does this result in a better more stable Yugoslavia orthe exact opposite? Could we see an early Balkanization of Yugoslavia and the creation of a flashpoint between NATO and the Warsaw Pact?
 

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So lets assume that the Chetniks pervail over Tito with the help of the western allies and the Royal Government returns from abroad. Does this result in a better more stable Yugoslavia orthe exact opposite? Could we see an early Balkanization of Yugoslavia and the creation of a flashpoint between NATO and the Warsaw Pact?

How?? Didn't the USSR had troops in Yugoslavia for a while?? If Tito had failed I guess the USSR would have installed a more loyal Communist instead.
 
I believe they only swept through a part of Yugoslavia, but if the Chetniks successfully drowv the Germans out then I don't think the Russians would try to overrun them. Stalin couldn't just wipeout a American ally without grave repercussions for post-war settlements that they wanted.
 
They're likely to go holocaust on Bulgarians, rather than Tito's benevolent Stalinesque only semi-genocidal ethnic engineering. By the way, I am slightly insulted in that they abuse the word chetnik by using it for themselves.
 
Is that really possible? I mean Bulgaria was occupied by Soviet troops and was a Soviet ally. I don't think they would attack Bulgaria right off the bat.
 
Is that really possible? I mean Bulgaria was occupied by Soviet troops and was a Soviet ally. I don't think they would attack Bulgaria right off the bat.

I mean Bulgarians in the territory of Yougoslavia. Like in Tsaribrod and Pirot. And Vardar Macedonia - where they had already sent several dozen thousand poeple to concentration camps in the Kingdom era. Not to mention Nish which was ethnically cleansed by the end of the 19th century.
The Chetniks won't bother with creating a Macedonian nation, they'll just kill everyone and populate Vardar Macedonia with more Serbian colonists, although IOTL they did send as many as they could, so I'm not quite sure.
 
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Originally posted by danwild6
I believe they only swept through a part of Yugoslavia, but if the Chetniks successfully drowv the Germans out then I don't think the Russians would try to overrun them. Stalin couldn't just wipeout a American ally without grave repercussions for post-war settlements that they wanted.
Tell that to the Poles.
 
Didn't soviet army just helped to liberate Belgrade and other small area on the north?
Because Tito did not want to be replaced later as a leader and wanted his own country to liberate itself.
On the other hand, there were some plans to divide Yugoslavia (east and west, damn you allies!!); and there was also some chetnik plan for future "federalization", check wikipedia (under ethnic cleansing):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetnik
 
Originally posted by danwild6

Tell that to the Poles.

You mean the Poles who were so far behind Soviet lines that they may as well have been on the moon for all the US could do to help them?;)


I mean Bulgarians in the territory of Yougoslavia. Like in Tsaribrod and Pirot. And Vardar Macedonia - where they had already sent several dozen thousand poeple to concentration camps in the Kingdom era. Not to mention Nish which was ethnically cleansed by the end of the 19th century.
The Chetniks won't bother with creating a Macedonian nation, they'll just kill everyone and populate Vardar Macedonia with more Serbian colonists, although IOTL they did send as many as they could, so I'm not quite sure.

The Yugoslavs are in a better position than Poland vis-a-vis the Soviets, but if the Chetniks do start killing Bulgarians then the Bulgarian army is still fully intact & backed up by the bloody Red Army, Churchill may care what happens to the Chetniks but I doubt FDR will particularly if they really have been rash enough to provoke the Soviets & Bulgarians by killing off large numbers of the latter.
 
Originally posted by Urban fox
You mean the Poles who were so far behind Soviet lines that they may as well have been on the moon for all the US could do to help them?
Yep, those Poles. And had the Red Army entered Chetnik Yugoslavia, do you really think US troops would have landed to back their allies? In 1945?
The Chetniks had rather bad press in the west, exactly because they were more interested in fighting Tito than fighting Germans (no matter if that is true, that was what many people believed). Red Army would have entered Yugoslavia in 1945 in pursuit of the Germans and nobody would have said a word against the Soviets. Stalin would have claimed the Chetniks were collaboring with Germans and that would have been it.
 
Partisans didn't win control over Yugoslavia either, they had their "free territory" that shrunk and grew, mostly in relation to whether Germans were actually doing something against partisans at the time. So in '44. Red Army swept trough, helped liberate most of Serbia and continued north trough Hungary and Austria, with partisans slowly liberating rest of country during the following year.

So Chetniks couldn't "win control over Yugoslavia" any more than that. They could become the stronger and more successful resistance movement than partisans (trough ASB help most likely), but it would be very difficult for them to completely destroy Partisan movement, so when Red Army comes for a polight visit in '44...

Sure, IF they marginalized Partisans, and IF they managed to get Allies to land on Adriatic coast before Red Army came ever close to the YU borders... and a couple of similar far stretch IFs... than they could have done it and there would likely be restoration of monarchy after the war. With events of war and such post war Kingdom of Yugoslavia wouldn't be any more democratic than Greece untill the Colonel's rule ended, maybe even comparable to Franco's Spain. In NATO sure, if Churchil managed to convince Stalin to accept a fully western Yugoslavia.
 
Everyone seem to forget that Chetniks lost Civil war to Tito first (this, not any great love of Commies some loons accuse Old Bulldog Winnie of, was the reason of British help switching to Commie Partisans from Royalists). You need to do something with THAT 1st.
 
Originally posted by danwild6

Tell that to the Poles.

But the Poles did not throw the Germans out.

Everyone seem to forget that Chetniks lost Civil war to Tito first (this, not any great love of Commies some loons accuse Old Bulldog Winnie of, was the reason of British help switching to Commie Partisans from Royalists). You need to do something with THAT 1st.

Perhaps they never collaborate with the Germans? I agree it is pretty much required for a Chetnik victory.
 
But the Poles did not throw the Germans out.



Perhaps they never collaborate with the Germans? I agree it is pretty much required for a Chetnik victory.
Reading multiple sources, it seems to me that both the Chetniks and Partisans made at least temporary accommodation with the Germans from time to time. While I do suspect that the evidence does suggest that the Chetniks did more of it and more actively, still I think the biggest single reason the Partisans got Western support was their effective PR. They managed to paint themselves whiter than they were and the Chetniks blacker than they were.
 
Reading multiple sources, it seems to me that both the Chetniks and Partisans made at least temporary accommodation with the Germans from time to time.
I would be VERY interested to see a source claiming that Partisans ever worked mano-a-mano with Germans. I've read several thousand pages on the topic but never saw such an "interesting" claim.
 
I would be VERY interested to see a source claiming that Partisans ever worked mano-a-mano with Germans. I've read several thousand pages on the topic but never saw such an "interesting" claim.
I don't think I've seen anything that suggested the Partisans actively fought on the side of the Nazis, ever. Nor do I doubt that the Partisans were rather more active against the Nazis than the Chetniks were.

It's more like China, I think. The KMT spent as much of their effort fighting the communists as they did the Japanese, while the communists seem to have been more efficient/capable against the Japanese. Yet the West continued to support the KMT.

I'm not saying that Tito didn't have a basis for his PR, but that he managed to paint his light gray as white and paint the Chetniks darker gray a black, and have that be accepted in the West.

I understand, perhaps incorrectly, that the Chetniks rarely actually fought alongside the Nazis.
 
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