Cheng Sao I reforms the Qing Navy

Maybe if they captured and operated European ships with a lot more firepower it might impress the Qing. Especially if they start raiding beyond Canton. As formidable as the pirates were, they were still using local technology, small vessels with small cannons and spearmen.

True, although they had 70,000 men, and with their success, and wealth, could get their numbers up to 100,000 in a year. Their numbers, troops, AND power is soo great, the Qing could probably see it as a threat to their entire dynasty. Also, it's probably likely they'll get modern weapons. Maybe if western powers are willing to trade with the pirates for modern European technology for cheap deals. From all the raiding they've done, and could do, they can get modern technology. If the pirates get modern technology, The Qing might be on verge of collapse. THEN the Qing will be forced too modernize their navy, get rid of corruption, and a lot of their problems.
 
So, we get the Qing serious about modernizing their navy. Let's say they strive to get rid of the majority of corruption and make a stricter form of taxation. How much money would they be willing to spend then?
Next on the to do list: actually centralize the country, and get the local leaders/officials to not roll over at the first sign of conflict (kinda what happens in the OTL Opium War). Though I guess you could roll that in as part of the anti-corruption & taxation streamlining measures.

Next on the list after that, build up relevant industries, you can't run before learning to walk (well, in terms of technologies, actually you can, it just tend to end badly, like the Beiyang Navy). That would require trading with Western nations, which would require the government to take that stick out of their arse and acknowledge that they're not the center of the universe and the best of everything. That's gonna take a while (if at all)... But on the plus side, if the Qing was more willing to buy Western goods (and thus lower the lopsided flow of silver from trade between China & UK at the time), it might defuse one of the main issue of the Opium War (maybe, I doubt it though).

Though by this point you might as well move it to the ASB section.

Maybe if they captured and operated European ships with a lot more firepower it might impress the Qing. Especially if they start raiding beyond Canton. As formidable as the pirates were, they were still using familiar local technology, small vessels with small cannons and spearmen.

True, although they had 70,000 men, and with their success, and wealth, could get their numbers up to 100,000 in a year. Their numbers, troops, AND power is soo great, the Qing could probably see it as a threat to their entire dynasty. Also, it's probably likely they'll get modern weapons. Maybe if western powers are willing to trade with the pirates for modern European technology for cheap deals. From all the raiding they've done, and could do, they can get modern technology. If the pirates get modern technology, The Qing might be on verge of collapse. THEN the Qing will be forced too modernize their navy, get rid of corruption, and a lot of their problems.

Or have the British East India Company sailing a fleet in and burning everything to the ground because they're fed up with the pirates and their BS, thus displaying the military prowess of Western naval tech.
 
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Next on the to do list: actually centralize the country, and get the local leaders/officials to not roll over at the first sign of conflict (kinda what happens in the OTL Opium War). Though I guess you could roll that in as part of the anti-corruption & taxation streamlining measures.

Next on the list after that, build up relevant industries, you can't run before learning to walk (well, in terms of technologies, actually you can, it just tend to end badly, like the Beiyang Navy). That would require trading with Western nations, which would require the government to take that stick out of their arse and acknowledge that they're not the center of the universe and the best of everything. That's gonna take a while (if at all)... But on the plus side, if the Qing was more willing to buy Western goods (and thus lower the lopsided flow of silver from trade between China & UK at the time), it might defuse one of the main issue of the Opium War (maybe, I doubt it though).

Though by this point you might as well move it to the ASB section.





Or have the British East India Company sailing a fleet in and burning everything to the ground because they're fed up with the pirates and their BS, thus displaying the military prowess of Western naval tech.


Well, they have 30 years before the Opium war to get that stick out their arse, I agree the Opium wars are still gonna happen. Britan still wants more power in the Far East. However, if the East India company comes and burns the Pirates to the ground, that's a problem, because now the Qing don't have an enemy on their shores, and are growing in money, and manpower every day. Without that kind of threat, there will not be a large threat for them to modernize the navy.
 
However, if the East India company comes and burns the Pirates to the ground, that's a problem, because now the Qing don't have an enemy on their shores, and are growing in money, and manpower every day. Without that kind of threat, there will not be a large threat for them to modernize the navy.
"Summon bigger fish" is supposed to be a wake up call, especially if said bigger fish proved that one needs to get their shit together because otherwise literally anyone can waltz in and dispense their version of justice.
 
Too much politics.

With four fleets in the 1800's, you had four different naval leaders all jockeying for the most new ship money to be handed out. If an outsider (European) attacked one fleet, it was almost guaranteed that none of the other three fleets would come to the assistance of the one. Jealousy and politics.

Plus it was much nicer to spend that money on beautiful new palaces......

If you could have a couple of efficient non-corruptible leaders, BOTH political and naval, you would stand a chance. Same with the army too.
 
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