Lyon Playfair worked up full-scale WWI style chemical shells for Crimea, and the British artillery officers refused to use such a weapon on the Russians. So the technology definitely exists, but the reluctance to use it on a white Christian enemy is if anything going to be even stronger in the ACW. How do you overcome that?
Chemical Warfare in the ACW
- Thread starter Anime Ninja
- Start date
"they had it coming" ? Savagery in war tend to highten the more desperate you get. If the south, somehow, looked like it was winning, the north might be more willing. same thing for the south and even more so as their cause was more radical to begin with.
"Dammit, I just wacked Louis on the back of the head again. NEW SPOTTER !"
Bleach and Ammonia is the formula for mustard gas, not chlorine.
And what do you mean "personal experience"?
Elaborate!
Bleach and Ammonia is the formula for mustard gas, not chlorine.
And what do you mean "personal experience"?
Elaborate!
LOL
Bleach (hypochlorite) and ammonia forms a number of compounds including hydroxylamine and nitrogen trichloride as well as the primary products which are nitrogen, water and brine. Legends has it, thatuUsing a chelating agent one can get a (comparatively) decent yield of hydrazine in a garage-synthesis, though of course hydrazine is about the last thing one would want to make in a garage.
None of these are mustard gas, though NCl3 is lachrymatory and also a ridiculously sensitive explosive. Never electrolyze ammonium chloride....
Hypochlorite does indeed form chlorine when reduced by hydrogen ions (=an acid is added).
That combination makes chloramine, NH2Cl. It's heavier than air, and it's rather nasty: I've used that combination ad hoc to get rid of a few moles in the back yard near a storage shed. Chloramine vapors hug the ground, so it ought to be fairly effective against infantry--indeed the sight and smell ought to be enough to spook a lot of raw, green troops, especially Confederates. Imagine if you will glass balls full of the necessary chemicals hurled into rebel lines at night: that ought to provoke enough fear / confusion / panic that the Union troops attacking ought to pretty much have a walkover, assuming they're ready (say, wearing bandannas well soaked with water over their noses and mouths).
Actually I was thinking of it as more of a terror weapon used against supply assets not in a direct military battle.
True although I was thinking less actual nastiness and more memories of the war. Lawrence, Kansas or Fort Pillow were horrific but not too well know to folks not into history. Burning of Atlanta and later march to the sea on the other hand has become the "Dresden" of the Civil War thanks to artistic takes on the war like Gone With the Wind.
I understand but suicide bombing still require people with a certain mindset to carry the weapon and be willing to die in so doing.
if lost causers are any indication, confederates were wrapped up enough in their states' rights myth to do anything the slavers and plantation owners wanted them to
While small quantities of some "poisonous" gasses had been made before the ACW by chemists doing various experiments, as one poster pointed out the industry to produce useful amounts was not there - certainly not in the CSA. The problem is you need lots of gas and a good dispersal method to make it effective. The number of chlorine cylinders used by the Germans at Ypres in WW1's first use was HUGE. Even then dispersal of the cloud limited effectiveness to a relatively shallow depth & limited the usefulness.
There were limits during the ACW to what weapons people would use, and you can be assured that the side that used gas first would see those responsible hanged if they lost.
There were limits during the ACW to what weapons people would use, and you can be assured that the side that used gas first would see those responsible hanged if they lost.
but to the point of certain death ? kamikaze were brainwashed with the idea of dieing honourably based on bushido and modern islamist suicide bombers are sure to go to heaven.
I can see a soldier charging the ennemy if he thinks it will help his mates or carry the battle but the idea of attacking a static target outside of the battlezone which would ensured your own death seem a few steps further then that somehow.
What about the earlier idea of having slaves lug it in? That would be expensive but that seems more realistically desperate.
It would create an interesting side effect: if a few attacks are carried (unwillingly) by slaves, after a short while, northern soldiers might become weary of a black guy they don't know walking around. You might get "shoot on sight" near certain places if they fail to stop after a summon.
Cook
Banned
Delivery is the easiest part: Hale Rockets. The US army used Hale rockets during the invasion of Mexico in 1846, they have good range and an acceptable volume for a chemical warhead.
I'd expect the majority of slaves given this suicide mission would target the Confederates.
Chem & Bio in the ACW was possible and proposed
Ah, the potential for chemical as well as biological warfare in the ACW was fully present and proposed often.
The following were known at the dawn of the war and were available in varying quantities: Chlorine, Hydrogen Cyanide, Cyanogen Chloride, Phosgene, Mustard Agent, Cacodyl and Chloropricrin. Some were more difficult to produce in quantity or et al, some of the chemical’s property lay largely unknown or neglect but all were discovered by 1861.
The Chemical Industry was less developed in the South but present for agricultural and explosive manufacturing. Protective Masks were also being patented in the US in the 1850s.
Agent delivery systems were proposed by both sides from: dropping poison gas from a balloon, Chlorine Shells, a Chloroform Spraying “Fire” Engine, generation of a cloud of Hydrochloric/Sulfuric Acid, a Glass Grenade filled with Cacodyl, Suffocating Smoke Cartridge and a Stink Shell.
Ah, the potential for chemical as well as biological warfare in the ACW was fully present and proposed often.
The following were known at the dawn of the war and were available in varying quantities: Chlorine, Hydrogen Cyanide, Cyanogen Chloride, Phosgene, Mustard Agent, Cacodyl and Chloropricrin. Some were more difficult to produce in quantity or et al, some of the chemical’s property lay largely unknown or neglect but all were discovered by 1861.
The Chemical Industry was less developed in the South but present for agricultural and explosive manufacturing. Protective Masks were also being patented in the US in the 1850s.
Agent delivery systems were proposed by both sides from: dropping poison gas from a balloon, Chlorine Shells, a Chloroform Spraying “Fire” Engine, generation of a cloud of Hydrochloric/Sulfuric Acid, a Glass Grenade filled with Cacodyl, Suffocating Smoke Cartridge and a Stink Shell.
You forgot about chloramine, which you get from mixing ammonia and chlorine bleach.
Also, is bromine as toxic as chlorine? If so, it would be easier to handle than chlorine and conceivably more practical, as it is a volatile liquid instead of a gas.
Also, is bromine as toxic as chlorine? If so, it would be easier to handle than chlorine and conceivably more practical, as it is a volatile liquid instead of a gas.
Alternate History Geek,
I only listed the major chemicals that were used as weapons so I wouldn't have to get into "would it work or not". I have not been able to find reference to chloromine being used that way. I do give you credit for Bromine being used in WWI and discovered before the ACW.
I only listed the major chemicals that were used as weapons so I wouldn't have to get into "would it work or not". I have not been able to find reference to chloromine being used that way. I do give you credit for Bromine being used in WWI and discovered before the ACW.
Cook
Banned
Interesting Unalist. Just wondering, do you know at what level the decision not to use chemicals was made? Was it by members of the army or by the respective governments?