Charles V wed Amalia of Cleves: Treaty of Venlo

So what if to smooth things over even more between the Habsburgs & William the rich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William,_Duke_of_Jülich-Cleves-Berg), someone insists that Amalia of Cleves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalia_of_Cleves) weds Charles V.

I know Charles had a deep love for his deceased Isabella and as such didn't wed again following her death in 1539, and William didn't particularly like the Habsburgs but for the sake of argument it comes up somehow either

Charles (I'll marry your sister, the territories can be considered her dowry, if we have kids they'll inherit the low countries, you won't attack me because I married to your sister)

OR​

William (I'll know what your up to because my sister is your wife, increase my influence as I have a sister for an Empress and my other sister has some influence in England, making me more of an international player; it also acknowledges to a degree my family's claims to those territories, I'm cool with the Emperor now)

OR​

Mary of Hungary (These 2 guys will be the end of me, I need someone to help mediate relations between the 2, ah! William has a sister ,perfect, sure she a little older kids aren't necessary, afterall our dear sister Isabella married Charles at 23 and our dear sister Eleanor is Queen of France and she married that darn Francis at 32, why not follow those examples no?)


Amalia would've been 26 around 1543 when the treaty was negotiated. I believe Mary of Hungary oversaw it's particulars, but I could be mistaken as the page on the Italian War 1542-1546 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_War_of_1542–46#Initial_moves_and_the_Treaty_of_Venlo) implies Charles was campaigning in the region, the marriage could take place in the late winter that year before Charles moved to Speyer to negotiate with the German princes. (Also does anyone know if William's marriage to Maria of Austria, Ferdinand I's (later HRE) daughter was arranged at this time? Can't find particulars on the treaty to that level)

So guys, I'll leave it to you to speculate... Do they have kids, a son, a daughter maybe more? Will Charles give them the low countries? Relations with England? The succession in the Empire (who becomes Emperor, the Burgundian branch or the Austria branch?) With no Low countries to tempt parliament, will they accede to a marriage between Mary I & Philip of Spain? Who does Philip marry instead (sorry I've gotten a bit excited).

Sidenote:
I believe this has bubbled up before (2014 & 2015) but this particular match hasn't been well explored, it's usually more Charles and Anna instead.
 
If Charles and Amalia had a son then that son could have inherited the low countries, butterflying away the dutch revolts and making Spain much happier in the end. I'm all for it.
 
Ok so, here's how I see a marriage between Charles and Amalia going down and the effects it may have:
  • Amalia of Cleves is, probably after the birth of their first child, going to find herself being pressured to take up a position of power in Burgundy, particularly when Charles finally decides that her son is 100% going to inherit the Netherlands. Most likely this'll be around 1545 or so, with Mary of Austria, who has been stuck in that role since 1531 finally able to leave once Amalia is settled in that role. She'll probably either return to a position of power in Hungary once Ferdinand realises she's free and available to help him, or perhaps she'll be pulled into a position as Regent in Naples, but regardless, Amalia and her son are going to be sent off to Brussels.
  • I'm banking on a wedding night baby, so little Charles is born in 1544, so let's say the new couple are married by proxy around November, and meet in person shortly after.
  • Considering Charles fathers 10+ children in his lifetime and Amalia comes from a somewhat fertile family, they'll probably have a second kid. I'm going to cut it off at one more, however, for a few reasons:
    • Charles is not in love with this wife, and thus will be fine to let her rule from Brussels with minimal contact year to year.
    • Charles is getting older and likely isn't as fertile as he once was. Once the gout truly starts setting in towards the late 1540's/early 1550's I think we can rule out 3rd/4th/5th children.
    • Amalia is going to be highly stressed following her taking up a position as Regent of Burgundy, particularly once Mary of Austria is able to leave. That isn't conductive to a lot of children.
  • For those reasons, let's say three pregnancies, with two live children and one miscarriage/stillborn. I'm also going ahead and making the second child a daughter named Anna, after her aunt in England. Amalia and Anne were decently close in age and Anna is a perfectly respectable name at the time, so it's a likely choice, and I prefer it over the equally likely Isabella, if just because I wouldn't want to name my child after my spouse's previous spouse.
  • Once it starts really kicking in that Charles is dying, I can see him abdicating to his infant son with Amalia as Regent in Burgundy, similar to how he abdicated the Imperial throne and Spain OTL. This'll be a mere formality rather than a huge surprise.
  • After Charles' death that's when things get interesting for Amalia. She's got real power in Europe, and the first thing I can see her doing is consolidating her son's position of power in any way possible. A high profile betrothal would work well, but the main thing will be to begin introducing her son into power and teaching him how to command respect and lead.
  • For the marriages of Charles and Anna, I'm going to say that I can see Charles marrying Claude of France, but considering that OTL his brother married her sister and that's likely to happen, I could also see Renata of Lorraine being a real candidate, as would his cousin Marie Eleanore of Cleves or any Italian Princess interested in the Hapsburgs. Anna might be offered to William V, Duke of Bavaria if Renata isn't available, but she would also be a candidate for Edward VI of England until his death, and potentially would make a more suitable Queen of France for Charles IX, if just because she'd be more likel to bring some Burgundese lands back into French hands with that marriage. It'd depend on the political situation and how it changed over time, however.

Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1500: d.1558) m. Isabella, Infanta of Portugal (b.1503: d.1539) (a), Amalia, Princess of Cleves (b.1517: d.1586) (b)

1a) Philip II, King of Spain (b.1527)

2a) Maria, Archduchess of Austria (b.1528)

3a) Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b.1529: d.1530)

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1534)

5a) Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1535: d.1573)

6a) John, Archduke of Austria (b.1537: d.1538)

7a) Stillborn Son (c.1539)

8b) Charles III, Lord of the Netherlands "Duke of Burgundy" (b.1544)

9b) Anna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1547)

10b) Stillborn Son (c.1549)​
 
Renée of Lorraine makes sense, Willem de Zwijger tried to marry her (or her sister) OTL. Anna gets the duke of Bavaria or Charles IX or even D. Carlos (these are the Habsburgs people).

Amalie and Anne of Cleves might ALSO want a double match - Charles to the Lady Elizabeth and Edward VI to Anna. After all, if Felipe II still marries Mary Tudor, he'd probably propose his brother as a match for Liz if he can't(read: she won't) wed him.
 
I'd imagine Anna would marry someone from the spanish branch or the austrian branch, I have an inkling that they'd want to avoid any situation that the Low countries would end up in the hands of a hostile house. For example the County of Artois follows proximity of blood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_of_blood) so if Charles were to die, there's an argument and precedent for Anna rather than Philip (or his son's) to be the heir to Artois. The Pragmatic Sanction of 1549 (https://eudocs.lib.byu.edu/index.php/History_of_Luxembourg:_Primary_Documents; hard to understand but as far as I could tell from the translation) unified the countries into one entity to be ruled by one prince as a unit but whether or not it'll be respected in times of war is another thing.
 
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Well Charles V will not have nothing to decide about giving or not the Low Countries to his son from Amalia, as that lands would have been surely destined to the children of Charles and Amalia in the wedding contract (like they were destined to the children of Philip II and Mary of England in OTL) so after their father’s the second wedding neither Philip or Mary and Maximilian (and their heirs) will have any claim on that lands until the extinction of the descendants of Charles&Amalia...
The pragmatic sanction of 1549 ATL also will settle the succession in Netherlands on Charles, his heirs, his eventual brothers and theirs heirs, Anna and her heirs, any eventual younger daughter and her heirs, then Philip and his line and after that the descendants of his daughters Mary and Joanna followed by that of his brother Ferdinand (and that of his sisters Eleanor, Isabella, Mary and Catherine)
 
Well Charles V will not have nothing to decide about giving or not the Low Countries to his son from Amalia, as that lands would have been surely destined to the children of Charles and Amalia in the wedding contract (like they were destined to the children of Philip II and Mary of England in OTL) so after their father’s the second wedding neither Philip or Mary and Maximilian (and their heirs) will have any claim on that lands until the extinction of the descendants of Charles&Amalia...
The pragmatic sanction of 1549 ATL also will settle the succession in Netherlands on Charles, his heirs, his eventual brothers and theirs heirs, Anna and her heirs, any eventual younger daughter and her heirs, then Philip and his line and after that the descendants of his daughters Mary and Joanna followed by that of his brother Ferdinand (and that of his sisters Eleanor, Isabella, Mary and Catherine)

I doubt William had that good of a hand to have that included in the contract especially given OTL, but it would be a good pot sweetener though. I can definitely see the ATL 1549 pragmatic sanction going
Charles, his heirs, his brothers (& their heirs), Philip of Spain (& his heirs), Ferdinand of Austria (& his heirs) and then heir to nearest female heir (& her heirs) of the last ruler of the region (in this case Anna), as in complete extinction of the male lines before going back to the female line.
 
No, Netherlands and Spain applied male preference and in any case OTL Netherlands were always settled like that by the Habsburg in both matrimonial contract who destined them to the descendants of someone (the children of Mary and Philip and after that the children of Isabella and Albert)... But that will not be for William but for Charles and the Low Countries who will be again independent with a local ruler if settled on any children born by Charles and Amalia
 
No, Netherlands and Spain applied male preference and in any case OTL Netherlands were always settled like that by the Habsburg in both matrimonial contract who destined them to the descendants of someone (the children of Mary and Philip and after that the children of Isabella and Albert)... But that will not be for William but for Charles and the Low Countries who will be again independent with a local ruler if settled on any children born by Charles and Amalia

Wouldn't that even add more of a reason to marry Anna to a family member just incase Charles III were to pass without any sons?
 
Who is a prospective bride for the future ruler of Burgundy then?

So far suggested are the daughters of France (OTL Claude of Lorraine) and a duchess of Lorraine (OTL Renata of Lorraine duchess of Bavaria) or Cleves (Marie Eleonora duchess of Cleve's OTL duchess of Prussia).

Outsider candidate I'm considering is Mary Queen of Scots
 
Wouldn't that even add more of a reason to marry Anna to a family member just incase Charles III were to pass without any sons?

What they might do is delay Anna's wedding until her brother has an heir of his own (if its a boy/girl doesn't matter. Charles' daughter would still take precedence over Charles's sister). It seems to have been done with Maria of Spain-Maximilian II (they only married after the birth of D. Carlos); Felipe II deliberately delayed Isabel Clara Eugenia's wedding until after her half-brother was married in the event that she might still be called to the throne of Spain; etc.
 
What they might do is delay Anna's wedding until her brother has an heir of his own (if its a boy/girl doesn't matter. Charles' daughter would still take precedence over Charles's sister). It seems to have been done with Maria of Spain-Maximilian II (they only married after the birth of D. Carlos); Felipe II deliberately delayed Isabel Clara Eugenia's wedding until after her half-brother was married in the event that she might still be called to the throne of Spain; etc.

Sounds somewhat reasonable but per Wikipedia Philip III & Isabella Clara both married their respective spouses on April 18 1599.

Question for all, what of a Jagiellon match for Anna? To Sigismund II Augustus ?
 
Question for all, what of a Jagiellon match for Anna? To Sigismund II Augustus ?

I'm a little iffy on a Jagiellon match if just because I don't think the Spanish and, in this case Burgundese Hapsburgs would have the same want for strong relations with Poland. It made more sense for Ferdinand I's children because of Hungary and the possible threat that the Jagiellon dynasty presented, even if the Hapsburgs were the technical heirs. Yes, Charles V and his sons would not want the Jagiellons to take Hungary or any lands Anna of Bohemia and Hungary brought upon her marriage, but with Charles III being Duke of Burgundy, he'll need a match for Anna that strengthens his position, so it'll probably be with the traditional heirs to Burgundy or, as has been suggested, maybe even her nephew, D. Carlos. It'd depend on what Amalia of Cleves as Regent of Burgundy feels, and what Philip II of Spain thinks is appropriate. However, a French match for Anna actually makes sense to me over a French match for Charles because (a) I can see Amalia actually trying for Marie Eleanore of Cleves for her son if just because she'd represent the possibiity of retaking the family lands and (b) a voice in France is potentially more useful than a hostage, allthough I can see them gunning for a double match if they can do it.
 
Sounds somewhat reasonable but per Wikipedia Philip III & Isabella Clara both married their respective spouses on April 18 1599.

Question for all, what of a Jagiellon match for Anna? To Sigismund II Augustus ?

Mea culpa, I could've sworn somewhere that Felipe II wanted to make sure that his son married before she did. Which is understandable if one looks at the fact that AFAIK Albrecht WAS in Spain/Portugal at the time the dispensation/(his release from his vows) was issued whereas Margarethe of Steyr still had to travel from Austria (and weren't they still in mourning for one of her sisters)? Maybe it was Felipe II's plan but then he died and Felipe III decided to split the costs and he and his sister got married on the same day.
 
Mea culpa, I could've sworn somewhere that Felipe II wanted to make sure that his son married before she did. Which is understandable if one looks at the fact that AFAIK Albrecht WAS in Spain/Portugal at the time the dispensation/(his release from his vows) was issued whereas Margarethe of Steyr still had to travel from Austria (and weren't they still in mourning for one of her sisters)? Maybe it was Felipe II's plan but then he died and Felipe III decided to split the costs and he and his sister got married on the same day.

It could be just differing information source, Wikipedia is great but not absolute. Yeah Albert was supposed to be the Archbishop of Toledo but the current one lived to long so Philip II changed his mind about what to do for/with him, I think all Maximilian II's sons based on what I could gather spent some of their formidable years in Spain (maybe except Matthias, can't find anything on him being there). I know a good number of Maximilian II's kids were born in Spain while he served as Regent on Charles V's behalf alongside Maria.
 
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