Charles the bold has more children with yolande of lorraine

further ATL changes the Anjou family managed to get a hold of the kingdom of naples in 1443
Charles the bold marries Yolande of Lorraine in 1445 and have the following children:
John (M) (1451-1451) (1465 age/) (1473 age/) (1477 age/) (1480 age/) (1483 age/)
Philip (M) (1451-1508) (1465 age 14) (1473 age22) (1477 age26) (1480 age29) (1483 age32)
Marie (F) (1458-1480) (1465 age 7) (1473 age15) (1477 age19) (1480 age22) (1483 age/)
Joanna (F) (1460-1500) (1465 age 5) (1473 age13) (1477 age17) (1480 ag20) (1483 age23)
Margaretha (F) (1463-1521) (1465 age 2) (1473 age10) (1477 age14) (1480 age17) (1483 age20)
Antoine (M) (1470-1476) ( (1465 age/) (1473 age3) (1477 age/) (1480 age/) (1483 age/)
History is kept a stable as possible:

The league of the public weal still happens in a burgundian victory over france in 1465
John 2 duke of Lorraine dies in 1470 and leaes his possesion to his son Nicholas
His son (John2) Nicholas dies in 1473 would Philip be the heir apparent (of Anjou) at this point (he is obviously the heir to burgundy)?
Rene of Anjou is still alive at this point being 64 years old he holds the kingdom of naples, is duke of bar; Anjou and Lorraine and is count of Provence. He is allowed to make his testament
Charles IV of Anjou is alive in 1473 (27Y) (but will die in1481 childless)
Yolande is alive in 1473 (45y) (given the rate of children would she had more OTL stops her in 1470 but that's when her OTL husband died)
Margaret is alive in 1473 (43y) her only son died before and she had been in Custody since 1472 in england)
Charles the bold still dies in 1477 assume Philip inherits burgundy at this point
Rene of Anjou dies 1480
Charles IV of Anjou dies 1481 no heirs
Margaret of Anjou dies in 1482 no heirs
Yolande dies in 1483 leaving 1 son and 2 daughters


(let's ignore the impact that charles being married to the sister of margaretha of Anjou will have on the relationships with england)
They might be married of at random times butI added some interesting dates. with their respective age.
If I would to give Philip one atribute it would be to remain independent (from france mostly) with a greater intrest in the low countries, Lorraine and burgundy (Lotharingia in one word), then Anjou, Provence and the kingdom of naples.
Philip is based on Yolandes OTL son Rene therefor he speaks fluent latin, had a good education likes arts and sciences but most of all geography
Joanna is based on Yolande OTL daughter yolande she has no Obvious personality quicks and apears to be normal and plain
Margaretha is based on Yolande OTL daughter margaret favorite grand child of Rene she has no Obvious personality quicks and apears to be normal and plain. She might also see Rene less as she will grow up in the low countries.

Who would be potential marriage candidates for whom?
 
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John 2 of portugal, the perfect prince. He's certainly a good candidate the age gap of 3 years sound good, it's sad that her OTL counterparts son died in a horse riding accident somewhat similar on how the OTL marie of burgundy died still this need not happen in the ATL, John 2 married in 1470 he would have been 15 she 12. I don't really want to make it a burgundy wank so I like to keep both the birtyear gender and date of death (keep it human and out of direct control). So it's a shame she dies so young whilst john lives on another 15 year.
For this reason I beleive joanna or margaetha would be better candidates as both would survive John 2, offcourse Charles the bold isn't blessed/cursed with knowing when his children will die.
But in 1465, he is destined the win the war with the league of the public weal, during this event Charles of valois (the brother of the french king louis XI) remained duke of Normandy (Treaty of Conflans) and Charles the bold(burgundy) would later try and mary his 1 OTL daughter to Charles of valois who would now be known as Charles of Normandy, so I'm more happy that in the ATL his first daughter marry's him in stead. ATL Marie is only 1 year younger then OTL marie but it could help Normandy be independent for a bid longer still with Charles dying in 1472 Marie would be 14 at this age and hopefully to young to contract whatever veneral decease (probably syfilise) Charles had.
Stil a widow at either 14(Marie);12(Joanna) or 9 (Margaret). They would be considered virgin and still be good brides.
Anyway John 2 of portugal sounds like a perfect candidate
(note it's not the intention for burgundy to inherit all of france)
 
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John 2 of portugal, the perfect prince. He's certainly a good candidate the age gap of 3 years sound good, it's sad that her OTL counterparts son died in a horse riding accident somewhat similar on how the OTL marie of burgundy died still this need not happen in the ATL, John 2 married in 1470 he would have been 15 she 12. I don't really want to make it a burgundy wank so I like to keep both the birtyear gender and date of death (keep it human and out of direct control). So it's a shame she dies so young whilst john lives on another 15 year.
For this reason I beleive joanna or margaetha would be better candidates as both would survive John 2, offcourse Charles the bold isn't blessed/cursed with knowing when his children will die.
But in 1465, he is destined the win the war with the league of the public weal, during this event Charles of valois (the brother of the french king louis XI) remained duke of Normandy (Treaty of Conflans) and Charles the bold(burgundy) would later try and mary his 1 OTL daughter to Charles of valois who would now be known as Charles of Normandy, so I'm more happy that in the ATL his first daughter marry's him in stead. ATL Marie is only 1 year younger then OTL marie but it could help Normandy be independent for a bid longer still with Charles dying in 1472 Marie would be 14 at this age and hopefully to young to contract whatever veneral decease (probably syfilise) Charles had.
Stil a widow at either 14(Marie);12(Joanna) or 9 (Margaret). They would be considered virgin and still be good brides.
Anyway John 2 of portugal sounds like a perfect candidate
(note it's not the intention for burgundy to inherit all of france)
I think Marie can marry the Duke of Bavaria instead as her second husband.
 
I think Marie can marry the Duke of Bavaria instead as her second husband.
what line of Bavaria?
Bavaria straubing (dead end in 1423 subdivided to the other 3)
Bavaria ingolstad (dead end in 1447 integrated into bavaria landhut)
Bavaria landhut the only son of Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria, George, Duke of Bavaria, he is certainly rich but so is the burgundy family Louis IX is married to the sister of the saxony elector but that connection is getting far. I'm not in favor
Bavaria Munich : Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria born in 1441 his oldest son was born in 1493 (William IV, Duke of Bavaria ). So either 11 year younger or 35 years older I'm not in favor

The son of the prince elector (and future) prince elector of saxony would be more prestigious Frederick 3 born in 1463 would be (5,7or 10 year older depending on wich daughter he picked. His mother would be the sister of frederick 3 the holy roman emperor. This would makes it a maybe, depending on if charles the bold needed the electors, But why not mary her of to maximiliaan and promise the Trier vote to make maximiliaan the new emperor (the archbishop of trier is a bastard grand uncle and very loyal to burgundy)

heir seems to be no inmediate candidates in the tudor line avaible their either to old Jasper tudor was born 1431 altough he had a illegitiamate daughterellen tudor a bastard niece of the king, not high enough for the burgundy main branch, but either a noble croy, or a second son of the cleve family.
Arthur the prince of wales son of henry 7 of england would be very young 23 years younger then even the yhe youngest daughter that's a no go. Still afther the rose war Burgundy would probably make new ties to the tudors so I could see them marrying of Philip of Cleves, Lord of Ravenstein with ellen tudor somewhere in the 148? time period. He could be a burgundian voice at the court in england and in return become a knight of the gulden fleece.

Christian I of Denmark was in the low countries in 1475 as a intermediary for future emperor maximiliaan his oldest son John, (future) King of Denmark born 1455 would be the proper age John was only married of in 1477(OTL). So it might be that he was looking if he had a shot as wel in 1475, Charles brother of the french king would be already dead meaning if Joanna is not already engaged to the portugese king the, 17 years old widow Marie (had she married Charles) and the 12 year old Margaret are avaible.

With England not doing so well and the war of the roses only ending in 1487 I see burgundy keeping out of the conflict, Portugal is definitly a good candidate because of the good ancient relations between the 2. Relations between France is going to keep getting worse and worse until Louis XI dies. Denmark might not be a bad candidate especialy for a third daughter.
The oldest daughter could be given to Maximiliaan if he can get the votes or to Louis XII (best before her 21 birthday 1480 as she has not long to live) I imagen within a year afther her dad dies in 1477.


Any candidates for the Philip of lotharingia heir of burgundy at birth in 1451, heir apparent of anjou in 1473, duke of Burgundy in 1477 king of lotharingia, king of naples and titular king of jerusalem count of Provence and duke of anjou in 1480
 
what line of Bavaria?
Bavaria straubing (dead end in 1423 subdivided to the other 3)
Bavaria ingolstad (dead end in 1447 integrated into bavaria landhut)
Bavaria landhut the only son of Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria, George, Duke of Bavaria, he is certainly rich but so is the burgundy family Louis IX is married to the sister of the saxony elector but that connection is getting far. I'm not in favor
Bavaria Munich : Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria born in 1441 his oldest son was born in 1493 (William IV, Duke of Bavaria ). So either 11 year younger or 35 years older I'm not in favor

The son of the prince elector (and future) prince elector of saxony would be more prestigious Frederick 3 born in 1463 would be (5,7or 10 year older depending on wich daughter he picked. His mother would be the sister of frederick 3 the holy roman emperor. This would makes it a maybe, depending on if charles the bold needed the electors, But why not mary her of to maximiliaan and promise the Trier vote to make maximiliaan the new emperor (the archbishop of trier is a bastard grand uncle and very loyal to burgundy)

heir seems to be no inmediate candidates in the tudor line avaible their either to old Jasper tudor was born 1431 altough he had a illegitiamate daughterellen tudor a bastard niece of the king, not high enough for the burgundy main branch, but either a noble croy, or a second son of the cleve family.
Arthur the prince of wales son of henry 7 of england would be very young 23 years younger then even the yhe youngest daughter that's a no go. Still afther the rose war Burgundy would probably make new ties to the tudors so I could see them marrying of Philip of Cleves, Lord of Ravenstein with ellen tudor somewhere in the 148? time period. He could be a burgundian voice at the court in england and in return become a knight of the gulden fleece.

Christian I of Denmark was in the low countries in 1475 as a intermediary for future emperor maximiliaan his oldest son John, (future) King of Denmark born 1455 would be the proper age John was only married of in 1477(OTL). So it might be that he was looking if he had a shot as wel in 1475, Charles brother of the french king would be already dead meaning if Joanna is not already engaged to the portugese king the, 17 years old widow Marie (had she married Charles) and the 12 year old Margaret are avaible.

With England not doing so well and the war of the roses only ending in 1487 I see burgundy keeping out of the conflict, Portugal is definitly a good candidate because of the good ancient relations between the 2. Relations between France is going to keep getting worse and worse until Louis XI dies. Denmark might not be a bad candidate especialy for a third daughter.
The oldest daughter could be given to Maximiliaan if he can get the votes or to Louis XII (best before her 21 birthday 1480 as she has not long to live) I imagen within a year afther her dad dies in 1477.


Any candidates for the Philip of lotharingia heir of burgundy at birth in 1451, heir apparent of anjou in 1473, duke of Burgundy in 1477 king of lotharingia, king of naples and titular king of jerusalem count of Provence and duke of anjou in 1480
She can marry the king of bohemia, vladislaus.
 
In having Naples (and Bosnia as a vazal) their's 3 options considering Corvinus.
1 ally Corvinus
2 stay neutral towards Corvinus and hungary
3 attack Corvinus, marrying the king of bohemia would be the third option I gues, I think the life of Beatrice of Naples was all considering more exiting.

What abouth the 7 year old Marie marys the brother of the French king and duke of normandy Charles in 1458 afther the league of the public weal, charles dies in 1472 leaving marie a 14 year old widow. Then in 1477 Charles the bold her father dies in aragon fearing French invasion the now 19 year old Marie marries Maximiliaan son of the Roman holy emperor Frederick 3, she in turn will die in 1480 before he becomes emperor.

Joanna could mary Charles VIII of France in 1483 She get's the duchy of normandy to support her (nonhereditary), Philip also get's concessions flanders already independant from the French crown is followed by Artois and the Lorraine region and Charles recognizes the crown of Lotharingia, In return Charles VIII simply get's the kingdom of Naples. (It was a drain on Philip of lotharingia and he traded it in for the crown however he will claim it back in 1498 afther the death of Charles VIII without any heir. this also means that Charles VIII doest mary anne of brittany Joanna is more or less based on the daughter yolande of Lorraine, named yolande given that her only child (OTL)was also a stillborn we might as wel continue the trent of anny of brittany and leave to many pregnancies with only 2 daughters to show for it. A semi sepperated duchy of Normandy would entice england to retake it and would put Burgundy in a strong position to regulate trade with between england and france. I supose maximiliaan would mary anne of brittany afther marrie dies, given the number of stillborns she had he might annul the marriage depending on if he got a heir from Marie or not. Perhaps a son and daughter

That leaves Margaretha, sure duke of Bavaria would make sence, John of portugal would also make a lot of sence (in my ATL) Philip the good helped conquer tangier and got madeira as a nonhereditary fief it's sugar income made it that Philip had to ask relative little taks, a larger portugese settlement in marocco made it that 80%of the Azores are either flemish, refugees from the 100 year war or portugese people working for burgundie. then afther 1444 Philip the good nearly died feeling his mortality he send ships out west dsicovering the new world and his own sugar islands, this caused some conflict with portugal combined in the civil war his bastard son married in the portugese bastard family to smooth the relations afther the war the daughter (Beatrice of Coimbra) of the now killed peter of Coimbra fleed to burgundy and married a nobleman. So with disputed lands and some blood on both hands marriage is definitly a option, but to be honnest john (future) king od denmark might be the most intresting option. It seems refreshinghly random. Like philip the good marying a portugese princess stuck between england france and the holy roman emperor he choose option Z and she happened to be the sister of henry the explorer and the developer of the caravel. It's the more random stories that make Burgundy interesting
 
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