Charles, son of Peter, Duke of Bourbon and Anne of France survives

VVD0D95

Banned
So, I've been doing some reading into the House of Capet and its many branches over the years, and one thing that I've always wondered is this, what role would the House of Bourbon have played had Peter and Anne's son Charles, Count of Clermont had survived into adulthood and succeeded his father as Duke of Bourbon in 1503. As nephew of Charles VIII, one imagines Clermont might get some high positions during his uncle's reign, and might well serve as either a high ranking official during the reign of Louis XII as well.

Should both Francis and Charles of ALencon die before Louis's death, that would make Clermont King in 1515.

Would it be more interesting to see Clermont as King, or as Duke of Bourbon and a high ranking schemer in the Valois ranks?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
BlueFlowwer said:
For the sucession yes.
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Well yeah. One would assume that during Clermont's life the succession goes:

Louis XI
Charles VIII
Louis, Duke of Orleans-later Louis XII
Charles, Count of Angouleme
Francis, Count of Angouleme, later Francis I
Charles, Duke of Alencon
Peter II, Duke of Bourbon
Charles, Count of Clermont.

Louis XI dies, Charles VIII dies, Louis XII ascends, Charles, Count of Angouleme is already dead, Francis and Charles of Alencon die before Louis XII, Peter II Duke of Bourbon is already dead, therefore when Louis dies, assuming he dies without issue, Clermont, now Duke of Bourbon is King, No?
 

Kellan Sullivan

Could make for interesting times if he's half as canny a politician as Anne was. I definitely could see him trying to make himself indispensable to the king. Hell, if something were to happen to Charles, Clermont could make a claim as having a better claim to the throne than Louis (could definitely see Louis XI trusting his daughter as regent for his grandson rather than allowing his son-in-law to succeed)

However, that aside, Anne and Pierre had to bargain with Louis XII to get him to acknowledge the succession of their daughter, Suzanne, to the duchy of Bourbon; Louis also needed to keep Anne and co. on side for his accession until quite a while afterwards. Here, assuming everything else plays out as per normal, Louis doesn't hold that bargaining chip of needing to legalize Sue's succession, which could make for fun times.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Kellan Sullivan said:
Could make for interesting times if he's half as canny a politician as Anne was. I definitely could see him trying to make himself indispensable to the king. Hell, if something were to happen to Charles, Clermont could make a claim as having a better claim to the throne than Louis (could definitely see Louis XI trusting his daughter as regent for his grandson rather than allowing his son-in-law to succeed)

However, that aside, Anne and Pierre had to bargain with Louis XII to get him to acknowledge the succession of their daughter, Suzanne, to the duchy of Bourbon; Louis also needed to keep Anne and co. on side for his accession until quite a while afterwards. Here, assuming everything else plays out as per normal, Louis doesn't hold that bargaining chip of needing to legalize Sue's succession, which could make for fun times.
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Oh now that would be interesting, though would Louis XI go against the legal interpretation of the succession, established in 1328? After all that risks opening up another can of worms no?

And this is true, Charles would definitely be someone who would take names I think. Could we see tensions between Bourbon and Orleans? I think in his early twenties?
 

BlueFlowwer

27 years old by my account. Since he's almost thirty he would have been married for atleast five years before becoming king. Who is the lucky duchess-queen?
 

BlueFlowwer

I'm gonna make some proposals.

-Marie d'Albret, heirress of Nevers, b 1491.

-Yolande Louise of Savoy b 1487

-Germaine of Foix b 1488

-If she's born in this tl, Margaret of Angloumene b 1492, perhaps she's the heirress to her father's land.

-Reneé of Bourbon b 1494

-Anne de la Tour de Auvergne b 1496.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
BlueFlowwer said:
I'm gonna make some proposals.

-Marie d'Albret, heirress of Nevers, b 1491.

-Yolande Louise of Savoy b 1487

-Germaine of Foix b 1488

-If she's born in this tl, Margaret of Angloumene b 1492, perhaps she's the heirress to her father's land.

-Reneé of Bourbon b 1494

-Anne de la Tour de Auvergne b 1496.
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OOh, hmm Marie d'Albret could be good, as could Margaret of Angoloueme also. Are we saying Charles is born 1487?
 

BlueFlowwer

Wiki says he was born in 1488. The question is if Charles shall have one or two wives during his life. Perhaps wed a french noblewoman/heirress first and later after her death and his ascention seek a royal queen?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
BlueFlowwer said:
Wiki says he was born in 1488. The question is if Charles shall have one or two wives during his life. Perhaps wed a french noblewoman/heirress first and later after her death and his ascention seek a royal queen?
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Hmm interesting, would the first wife die in childbirth, or just the various maladies that hit people during this time?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
I think Yolande of Savoy would be fascinating and fits well with foreign policy, though children with Margeret Angouleme brings the wealth to the crown
 
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