The Austrians and their allies are truly in a bad spot, eagerly awaiting for the next chapter and the development of this war, keep up the good work!
Charles Must Go!
- Thread starter Israel_Dan the Man
- Start date
Thanks!
And you are right about the Grand Alliance 2.0 being in a bad spot. It's only going to get worse for them (except for one of the countries involved, they will actually come out on top).
Interesting.. Wonder what country it is and how are they going to benefit from this, perhaps switching sides and getting territory from the losers of the war?Thanks!
And you are right about the Grand Alliance 2.0 being in a bad spot. It's only going to get worse for them (except for one of the countries involved, they will actually come out on top).
Probably neither because Munnich’s reforms started only in 1632 (in 1630-31 Anne had different priorities and Munnich was not, yet, in charge of the Millitary Collegium) and even these reforms did not considerably improved logistics (not that he did not try) as had been demonstrated during the Ottoman War of 1735-39 and even the 7YW. Not sure about the meaning of “mobilization” in this specific context because Russia had a standing army. Probably it makes sense to talk about receiving the subsidies (from whom?) faster than expected because at that time Russian finances were in a really lousy state. 😜
When we are talking about the logistics of that period it is not an issue of negligence but rather an inability to cut the huge personal baggage train. Otherwise, operations during the War of Polish Succession when the Russian troops marched first to Danzig and all the way to the Rhine (mostly across the allied territory).
I imagine the south of Vietnam (Cochinchina) becoming predominantly European with French or Spanish in large numbers.
10 Years War: Part 2
10 Years War: Part 2 (1732-1733)
In Western Europe, it seemed that the French-led alliance was winning virtually every battle in Germany and Italy, with 75,000 French smashing a German army of 25,000 soldiers at Aachen (which would later be renamed to Aix-la-Chapelle) on January 2, 1732, all but giving French dominance over the left bank of the Rhine. With this accomplished, the French then focused on 2 fronts: the Dutch and the Austrians, in that order.
With their main priority now being the Dutch, the French launched an attack with 175,000 men in February led by the Duke of Berwick that overran the Dutch forces defending Brussels, allowing the French to take over all of the Austrian Netherlands before being stopped at the Dutch border by British and German reinforcements. The fortified Alliance soldiers would manage to hold the French forces there for the majority of 1732.
In November, however, the French launched another attack with 151,000 men which collided with a force of 120,000 Alliance soldiers at the Battle of Antwerp on November 20th. The Alliance forces fought well enough to mitigate the French quantitative advantage, leading to a stalemate with 35,000 French casualties compared to 32,000 Alliance losses. Historians now believed that the stalemate here is what saved Hanover from being occupied at the war's end.
At the beginning of 1733, France launched another offensive with 150,000 men that managed to take Antwerp at heavy cost, leaving the city of Amsterdam wide open as the final target. Despite the Dutch and British throwing everything they had at the French, the French armies managed to push forward and start the year-long Siege of Amsterdam on March 14th, with 150,000 French vs 45,000 defenders. The Hague's 30,000 Dutch soldiers were fighting another 100,000 French attackers, preventing Dutch reinforcements from arriving in Amsterdam.
Eastwards, the Polish and Bavarians had finally begun to pull themselves together, with the former launching an attack of 58,000 men (about half of which were Russian) into Hungary while the latter worked with Venice to take Tyrol and with Saxony and Prussia to advance into the heart of Austria. The Hungarians, whom were already on bad terms with Charles VI for various political and financial reasons, were quick to revolt in various locations against their Habsburg oppressors. By the end of 1732, Buda and Pest were in open revolt, forcing Austria to send a large amount of troops there even as a Prussian-Saxon-Bavarian offensive with 90,000 men began to besiege Prague, and Venice seized all of Dalmatia and Carniola.
However, the Austrians did manage to repel 2 Bavarian-Venetian attempts to take Vienna in early 1733, at the cost of losing more land to the Polish-Russian force (along with the rebels) in Hungary. In March of 1733, Prague fell after a 3 month siege, causing the Austrian forces to fall back to Moravia to recuperate. The rest of 1733 saw the rest of the Tyrol penninsula get taken over by the Venetians while the Prussian-Bavarian-Saxon force got ever closer to Vienna, especially with Polish and Hungarians in the rear [1].
In the west, Portugal was badly losing to Spain, who had the larger and somewhat better-trained army, with 61,000 Spanish defeating 52,000 Portuguese at the Battle of the Algarve in April. It was a different story in America, where the Portugese colonial forces did a surprisingly good job beating off the northern Spanish forces with the help of the few thousand Dutch soldiers in Guyana.
In the north, the Russians welcomed the new year of 1732 by bombarding the city of Rovaniemi with 200 guns on January 1, before attacking it with 50,000 men. However, the Swedish knew how crucial the Kemijoki river was to the empire's defenses, and the 20,000 fortified defenders managed to push back 2 offensives, before being overwhelmed by the 3rd offensive on January 15th. The Russians then gradually pushed into the Swedish mainland (aided by numerous naval victories that destroyed most of the Swedish fleet), even launching an amphibious attack on Lulea while the main Russian force struck Kiruna in March, when the weather had somewhat warmed up.
In the south, the Danish won at heavy cost at the Battle of Linkoping and the Battle of Nokoping. The heavy Swedish fortifications at Södertälje kept them away for all of 1732 (and would end up doing so for 1733 as well), but the fact remained that Sweden's defeat was looking likelier by the day.
Realizing the desperate situation they were now in, the Swedish decided that they needed to make an important strike quickly and soon. They found their opportunity after a Norwegian force of 8,470 men was repelled from Karlstad on March 19, 1733. This defeat left a wide hole in the Norwegian lines (since the remaining Norwegian forces were up north while the Danish were in southern Sweden), which encouraged the Swedes to gather as many men as possible (even the barely experienced new recruits), then strike Oslo with 44,000 men. The Danish-Norwegian force defending Oslo (13,000 men) was of far better quality, but that didn't matter when they were outnumbered over 3 to 1, and Oslo fell on April 17th, at the cost of 14,000 casualties to 10,000 Danish casualties. This win came at a cost, as it required the Lappland offensive to be canceled and for the forces against Russia to be cut almost in half.
The Swedes hoped that this victory would lead to the Danish signing a peace with them (as their 2nd largest city was now in Swedish hands), but the Danish refused to give in. It helped that Russia had launched one more offensive in June 1733 that had seen the Swedish lose Skellefteå, with Umea being next on the chopping block (though for the time being the city of Umea was saved by Russian logistics issues and planned reinforcements going instead to fight in Hungary.
2 years more had passed in the 10 Years War, and it seemed that the Grand Alliance's troubles only got worse as time passed. Little did the Grand Alliance know that the grand finale would be the worst part of it all...
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1. Little note, since the Venetian-Ottoman war never happened ITTL, that means the Austrian-Ottoman war never happened so the Ottomans still own Banat and Serbia.
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The losses look unrealistically high. At the bloodiest battle of the WoSS the allied loss of approximately 24% was considered catastrophic. Here you have 40%. Taking into an account that the French side had almost 2:1 advantage before the battle and more than 2:1 after the battle, what “stalemate” are you talking about? An army that suffered 40% losses was not ...er... “operational” (like the Russians after Borodino) especially when opponent still have more than twice the numbers.
To start with, deploying 210,000 troops on a single battlefield would be probably without a precedent during that period because an army of that size was pretty much unmanageable and usually broken into few smaller ones.
Not to mention that with this initial numeric advantage it would take a nincompoop leader on the French side and a genius on the opposite side for the allies not to be simply annihilated (or surrounded and forced to capitulate). And of course a reasonable commander of that period would try to avoid a battle with the equal quality enemy who has 2:1 numeric advantage.
Just out of a pure interest:
1. Who is Russian ruler at that time?
2. What would be the reason for the Russians to fight Austria, their main (real or potential) ally against the Ottomans?
3. How the PLC got a war-worthy army?
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Another excellent chapter! Things look really bleak for the Austrians and Swedes and by your words it will seem it will only get worse.. Don't have much to say asides that I eagerly await for the next chapter!
@dunHozzie Any chance of the British persuading a member of the French-led alliance to defect is pretty much dead now that the Grand Alliance's defeat is basically inevitable.
@Kurd Gossemer Thanks!
@alexmilman Thank you for calling out the errors in my story in terms of army numbers and casualties, I will edit them to make them more realistic.
Also:
1. Natalya is in charge, even though she has to give a lot of power to the Guards who were with Peter the Great.
2. For starters, since Pruth didn't happen as a result of the POD, the Russians feel cockier than IOTL when it comes to the Ottomans. Also, their alliance with Venice (who is much stronger than IOTL and will continue to be so) is meant to contain the Ottomans, which further adds to their arrogance. Whether it'll bite them in the ass or not will remain to be seen.
3. The Poles already have a (mediocre) army, but Saxon and Russian troops make up over half of the fighting force since both of them are vying for influence in Poland.
@Kurd Gossemer Thanks!
@alexmilman Thank you for calling out the errors in my story in terms of army numbers and casualties, I will edit them to make them more realistic.
Also:
1. Natalya is in charge, even though she has to give a lot of power to the Guards who were with Peter the Great.
2. For starters, since Pruth didn't happen as a result of the POD, the Russians feel cockier than IOTL when it comes to the Ottomans. Also, their alliance with Venice (who is much stronger than IOTL and will continue to be so) is meant to contain the Ottomans, which further adds to their arrogance. Whether it'll bite them in the ass or not will remain to be seen.
3. The Poles already have a (mediocre) army, but Saxon and Russian troops make up over half of the fighting force since both of them are vying for influence in Poland.
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1. We know pretty much nothing about Natalia except that her being for a while in charge of Alexei’s upbringing did not produce any remarkable results and that she had a home theater. Now, regarding power being given to the Guards, how do you see it? What kind of power exercised two regiments of the Guards and how exactly? Obviously, presence of 2,000 people at the Senate proceedings would be impractical so are you talking about something similar to the arrangements of EI for the leib-company (none of the members of that ultra-privileged played any role in state administration) or some legalized representation of their representatives/commanders at the Privy Council, Senate, ministries, etc.? In OTL the Guards of that period as a body had rather modest interests: just to have a ruler that pays him well, regularly distributes free drinks and extra money, does not burden them with the exercises and other duties (when a Guardsman was going to his post in a palace, quite often he was accompanied by a servant carrying his musket), does not restrict their off-duty activities (drinking, whoring, brawls, card and pool games, etc.) and, God forbid, is not sending them to war. If the Petrian tradition continues, from time to time some of them are being sent to the provinces with the vague “overseer” functions and almost unlimited powers allowing a sergeant of the Guards to put a governor in chain and to be a major nuisance for a fieldmarshal who could not restrict him. Of course, these errands provided an unlimited opportunity for the extortions.
So it is rather important to define how exactly the Russian Empire is being ruled.
Now, why Natalia? Why not Peter II and if he is dead why not the line of Ivan? It does not look like Peter & Co had been quite popular in Russia circa 1730: when push came to shove his daughters were not even considered.
2. Not suffering defeat at Pruth would not necessarily add too much to the cockiness. Munnich was quite cocky in his plan of the Ottoman war expecting to take Constantinople in 3 years. It was an issue of the numbers and finances. Russian army was noticeably numerically inferior to the Ottomans even during the reign of CII and Russia was out of money: in 1730s the salaries were routinely in the arrears and often paid by the copper kopeks. Absence of a direct experience was not making things easier in the terms of figuring out the tactical and operational solutions while the Austrians had a lot of the relevant experience and very impressive record of successes against the Ottomans (the post-Eugene screwups did no5 start, yet). Not to mention that they had been much better positioned geographically than Russia for such a war. OTOH, France at that time was a traditional Ottoman ally and in an arrangement involving anti-Ottoman war hardly would side with Russia. All of the above still leaves a question of the reason for Russia to go to war with Austria: they did not have a common border or obvious competing interests.
3. At that time the PLC did not have anything that could pass for even “mediocre” army. At best few modern regiments.
@alexmilman
1. At the moment Natalya will continue treating the guards the way Peter did (and she will likely continue to do so until her death), and she became ruler ITTL due to how close she was to Peter, although she will be somewhat of a balance to the more selfish royal advisors, like Prince Dolgorukov. It'll help that Osterman is still there as an advisor.
2. Honestly, Russia isn't too crazy about fighting Austria ITTL, it is just due to the fact that Austria happened to be on the same side with Sweden.
3. They had 24,000 men as of the Silent Sejm. Not gonna lie, they sucked, but they were there.
1. At the moment Natalya will continue treating the guards the way Peter did (and she will likely continue to do so until her death), and she became ruler ITTL due to how close she was to Peter, although she will be somewhat of a balance to the more selfish royal advisors, like Prince Dolgorukov. It'll help that Osterman is still there as an advisor.
2. Honestly, Russia isn't too crazy about fighting Austria ITTL, it is just due to the fact that Austria happened to be on the same side with Sweden.
3. They had 24,000 men as of the Silent Sejm. Not gonna lie, they sucked, but they were there.
10 Years War: Part 3
10 Years War: Part 3 (1734-1735)
As the war entered its 5th year in 1734, the first offensive was done by the French against Amsterdam in order to break the Dutch-British army once and for all. Because of this, the French assembled hundreds of guns alongside 130,000 men to finally end the Siege of Amsterdam. Despite sizable resistance, the walls of the great city crumbled on the 2nd day of February, and the Anglo-Dutch forces were eventually overwhelmed. By the end of February, the entire Netherlands had capitulated, and Hanover, seeing the writing on the wall, opened negotiations that led to Hanover surrendering on March 10th, 1734. Now the only (major) opponent left in Western Europe was England.
To the north, the Swedish were forced to retreat from Oslo in January due to a lack of food caused by almost nonexistent supply lines, deciding to retreat to Karlstad and wait out the winter. However, Danish reinforcements arrived by the tens of thousands, and soon the Swedish forces found themselves being forced to retreat towards the Orebro fortress in order to protect Stockholm, having to abandon Karlstad to do so. Before the Swedish could make a last stand, however, the Empress decided to surrender on June 4th, just before the Danish could unleash a huge attack on Södertälje. She remembered how the Russians had sacked the city, killing thousands and destroying as many buildings as they could, and she did not want that to happen again.
And with that, the Northern Front of the War ended, allowing the Danish and Russians to focus their forces on Europe (asides from the soldiers occupying the lands they'd taken from Sweden) and putting another nail in the coffin that was the Grand Alliance's ambitions.
To the south, the French had sent a force of 60,000 men to help the Bavarians and their other allies besiege Vienna. The siege would be long and bloody, lasting from April 10, 1734, to October 3rd, 1735, with 200,000 soldiers from the French led alliance (including 13,000 Venetians and 5,400 Hungarians) attacking a fortified capital with 107,000 defenders. Eventually, however, the capital fell, resulting in Austria's defeat (and the death of Charles VI due to him falling in battle). And with the fall of Austria, the British were alone. Portugal had stopped really fighting in the middle of 1734 (asides from some clashes in South America, where Portugal was surprisingly victorious), and Hanover was simply focusing all of its forces on defending its borders and the countless northwest German duchies it was occupying for "protection".
That being said, the British still had hopes that they could fight this war to a stalemate, even as Vienna fell and Sweden surrendered. They were motivated in large part due to victories on the American front in Nova Scotia and Florida, and they believed that a decisive victory in America could result in more favorable negotiations if France became afraid of losing its American colony (never mind that the French Americans had successfully defended Quebec twice).
However, the British didn't know that France was preparing for the grand Endgame of this war: the invasion of the British Isles.
Also wanna say that since I am now entering my first year of college (University of Rochester), it'll be quite a while between chapters. Sorry!
Good chapter, the Grand Alliance is it's in death door and the Russians and French have Europe basically occupied really interested to see how this ends.
Let's just say Germany will be quite different when this ends...
Sneak peak for the Titanomachy
Hey guys, just wanted to give you guys a tiny sneak peak of the "Great War" aka the "Titanomachy" that will happen in the early 20th century:
"Rolling Out" is a war song written by an anonymous author in the Commonwealth of America that was used by many soldiers as a chant as they marched off to fight the horrific and bloody war against the Acadian Union in America and the Scottish and Irish in Europe (as England sent many American soldiers to fight in the British Isles despite the Commonwealth's complaints).
These empty homes we used to know. All broken down!
On lonely roads, we roam alone. Through smoke and clouds!
We know our foes will come for more. So hold your ground!
We'll mow 'em down, let's show 'em now. We're rolling out!
"Rolling Out" is a war song written by an anonymous author in the Commonwealth of America that was used by many soldiers as a chant as they marched off to fight the horrific and bloody war against the Acadian Union in America and the Scottish and Irish in Europe (as England sent many American soldiers to fight in the British Isles despite the Commonwealth's complaints).
These empty homes we used to know. All broken down!
On lonely roads, we roam alone. Through smoke and clouds!
We know our foes will come for more. So hold your ground!
We'll mow 'em down, let's show 'em now. We're rolling out!
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