Charles IX has a legitimate son and illegitimate daughter

Let's say the genders, personality AND health of Charles de Valois, Duc d'Angouleme and of Marie Elisabeth de France are reversed.
So by the time of death of Charles IX in 1574 he has a 2-years legitimate son and a rather obscure illegitimate daughter.
In OTL the Duc d'Angouleme lived till 1650. So the reign of TTL Charles X will be pretty long (1575-1650). And with his interesting personality...it will be fulfilling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Valois,_Duke_of_Angoulême
The obvious results is that OTL Henri III may stay the King of Poland, and OTL Henri IV may stay the King of Navarre.
Catherine de Medici will likely become the regent for her infant grandson, though Elisabeth of Austria (never to return to Austria TTL) is a likely contender, so we'll see a tug-of-war between Queen-Mother and Queen-Grandmother.
And Marie de Medici may still happen TTL as Queen of France - she's 3 years younger that TTL Charles X. Other than her, marriage alliance with Lorraine may be suggested, but the likely bride, first cousin of TTL Charles X, Elisabeth of Lorraine, OTL Duchess of Bavaria, is sterile.

I'd say the childhood of this boy will have a LOT in common with the childhood of Louis XIV - a child king on the throne of the country during the civil war.
 
Also, if Henri III's odds to become the King of France are much smaller TTL, he may not weasel out of his marriage with Anna Jagiellon (yes, she's MUCH older than him, but that secures the throne). Though in this case he'll maybe take some poison advices from his mum to get rid of "old hag".
 
Well, with a surviving Valois line, that means the Navarrese Bourbons will be extinct soon unless Henri IV manages to outlive/divorce Margot. I wonder who a good second wife for le vert galant would be. Also Henryk Walezy will need a second wife when Anna kicks (be it naturally or no) and I somehow doubt that Louise de Lorraine-Mercoeur will be anything like a good match. Maybe he marries a la Jagiello (first and second wives both had claims to the throne) so a Piast? Or whomever would theoretically have the nearest claim to the Polish throne.
 
I think that if Henryk outlives Anna (and he'll likely to do so), he will remarry (with Papal dispensation if necessary) her niece Anna Wasa of Sweden (b.1568)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Vasa_of_Sweden
And thus retain claim to the throne jure uxoris.

And in fact, PLC is likely to see more butterflies than France till late 1580ies, cause the regency of Catherine de Medici with moderating influence of her daugher-in-law the Queen-Mother (who was staunchly against execution of Huguenot leaders) will look a lot like OTL Henri III reign.
And this joint regency is very likely to produce Marie de Medici as Queen of France, as she's both somewhat related to Catherine de Medici and has a Habsburg mother. I think that betrothing her grandson will be one of the last things she'll do (circa 1588-1589, with marriage of King Charles X taking part in 1590).
I'm also thinking of the fate of Francois d'Anjou\d'Alencon TTL. The idea of becoming a consort of Elisabeth I is a pie-in-the-sky, however there is the sister of Henri IV, Catherine of Navarre, who is of pretty marriageable age, and can be married to Francois circa 1580-1583 for both marking the end of TTL Huguenot Wars and strengthening alliances.
 
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If enough people are interested I may make something of TLIAW or whatever with this PoD (Charles X Valois, King of France), based on the results of this discussion.
 
I think that if Henryk outlives Anna (and he'll likely to do so), he will remarry (with Papal dispensation if necessary) her niece Anna Wasa of Sweden (b.1568)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Vasa_of_Sweden
And thus retain claim to the throne jure uxoris.

And in fact, PLC is likely to see more butterflies than France till late 1580ies, cause the regency of Catherine de Medici with moderating influence of her daugher-in-law the Queen-Mother (who was staunchly against execution of Huguenot leaders) will look a lot like OTL Henri III reign.
And this joint regency is very likely to produce Marie de Medici as Queen of France, as she's both somewhat related to Catherine de Medici and has a Habsburg mother. I think that betrothing her grandson will be one of the last things she'll do (circa 1588-1589, with marriage of King Charles X taking part in 1590).
I'm also thinking of the fate of Francois d'Anjou\d'Alencon TTL. The idea of becoming a consort of Elisabeth I is a pie-in-the-sky, however there is the sister of Henri IV, Catherine of Navarre, who is of pretty marriageable age, and can be married to Francois circa 1580-1583 for both marking the end of TTL Huguenot Wars and strengthening alliances.

According to her article on the French wiki, Catherine de Bourbon-Navarre was a possible spouse for the duc d'Alençon between 1580 and 1584. But a Valois Poland and Valois Navarre could be interesting. Habsburg who?:D
 
According to her article on the French wiki, Catherine de Bourbon-Navarre was a possible spouse for the duc d'Alençon between 1580 and 1584. But a Valois Poland and Valois Navarre could be interesting. Habsburg who?:D

Especially fun circa 1618 IF the maternal uncles of TTL Charles X (Rudolph and Mathias) die childless as OTL and Charles has a militant personality of his OTL prototype.
 
Especially fun circa 1618 IF the maternal uncles of TTL Charles X (Rudolph and Mathias) die childless as OTL and Charles has a militant personality of his OTL prototype.

Well, they might - or Rudolf might decide to legitimize his bastard son to succeed him as king of Hungary and Bohemia (he was whacked enough in the head to do that). Or Matthias might marry a more fertile lady than his OTL wife - IDK who, though. Or Albert does still marry Isabella but their kids survive. With a POD in the 1570s it could lead to all sorts of dynastic fun by 1618.:D:eek::cool:
 
Let's say the genders, personality AND health of Charles de Valois, Duc d'Angouleme and of Marie Elisabeth de France are reversed.
So by the time of death of Charles IX in 1574 he has a 2-years legitimate son and a rather obscure illegitimate daughter.
In OTL the Duc d'Angouleme lived till 1650. So the reign of TTL Charles X will be pretty long (1575-1650). And with his interesting personality...it will be fulfilling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Valois,_Duke_of_Angoulême
The obvious results is that OTL Henri III may stay the King of Poland, and OTL Henri IV may stay the King of Navarre.
Catherine de Medici will likely become the regent for her infant grandson, though Elisabeth of Austria (never to return to Austria TTL) is a likely contender, so we'll see a tug-of-war between Queen-Mother and Queen-Grandmother.
And Marie de Medici may still happen TTL as Queen of France - she's 3 years younger that TTL Charles X. Other than her, marriage alliance with Lorraine may be suggested, but the likely bride, first cousin of TTL Charles X, Elisabeth of Lorraine, OTL Duchess of Bavaria, is sterile.

I'd say the childhood of this boy will have a LOT in common with the childhood of Louis XIV - a child king on the throne of the country during the civil war.

While the idea of a surviving Valois France is interesting I think you might be quite a bit off about the situation within France. The Crown's authority had began to rapidly decline thanks to the constant civil wars. Looking at the era, both the Catholic League and the Huguenots were fairly evenly matched. Not in terms of direct manpower obviously (Catholics made up at least 80 % of the French population, probably closer to 90%) but in terms of armies fielded and influence. It wasn't until Henri III had the Duc de Guise and Cardinal de Lorraine murdered and was then himself assassinated, that things changed. The Catholic league was basically headless, while the forces of the Crown were combined with the full forces of the Huguenots. And even then it still took what, five or six years and a conversion for Henri IV to emerge victorious.

The main issue here is the Valois religious policy. Its moderation meant that the Crown was alienated from both the Catholic League of the Guise and the Huguenot forces. This would be after the St. Bartholomew's day massacre, so no chance of real Protestant support for the crown. The Valois' best bet would be to fully endorse the Catholic League, end moderation and go into full scale war. It would be bloody, long and devastating, but it would ultimately get results. Destroy the Huguenots ability to wage war completely. It was already crippled after the massacre, so the late 1570s and early 1580s would be the best time to finish them off, before they regrouped and continued the wars of religion for nearly 20 years.

I imagine the war could end with a modified version of the Edict of Nantes, allowing religious toleration but curtailing political and military freedoms. Of course, after ending the Huguenot threat the Guises still need to be neutralized. Maybe the Guises attempt to seize the young King and take control of the government and fail, leading to their fall. Or something similar. But either way the internal threats need to be removed in order for France to prosper.

Also, the tug of war over the regency would be multiple, as many would have a claim to a long-term regency. The Duc d'Alençon, as the King's uncle, would have a very strong claim, followed by the Queen Mother Elisabeth of Austria, the Queen Dowager Catherine de' Medici and King Henri of Navarre, as next in line after the Valois. So that in itself is also a potential civil war. Someone, probably Catherine, would need to take charge quickly and remove the other rivals politically.

But, if France can get its act together, then the Valois have a real potential to rival the House of Habsburg in terms of European domination. They would have France, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (assuming someone gives Henri de Valois a b*tch slap, makes him get his act together and embrace his new Kingdom) and potentially England. Remember Elizabeth I nearly married her "frog" Alençon, so there could be a potential marriage right there. Unlikely mind you, if the Valois go full Catholic on their Huguenots, but still possible. If Spain is able to really threaten England, then the Queen might turn towards a renewed France for friendship. Perhaps Mary, Queen of Scots escapes to the Spanish Netherlands and weds Juan de Austria, creating a Spanish menace to threaten Elizabeth.

Finally, as to marriages, that will entirely depend on the international situation. If the French-Habsburg rivalry heats back up then you can kiss an Infanta or Archduchess goodbye. France would probably turn to Italy for a bride. An interesting idea would be to have Duke Alfonso II of Ferrara have children with his second wife Barbara of Austria, with a daughter becoming Queen of France. Or have Henri and Margot have issue and have a Navarrese Princess bring some of her families vast holdings as a dowry to her cousin Charles. You could even still use TTL's Marie de' Medici, or Catherine de Lorraine, if she is less religious here. However, I will say a German match is very unlikely.

One other thing: at one point in 1580 Catherine de' Medici attempted to put forward a claim to the vacant throne of Portugal. I can't remember on whose behalf, but it could be very interesting later down the line. Maybe Charles X will decide he likes how his name sounds in Portuguese?
 
As to regencies France (unlike their neighbors over the Channel) preferred the queen mother (in this case, Elisabeth of Austria (who might only end up as de jure regent, with Catherine pulling the strings as de facto) to an uncle. In fact, the only time since the Renaissance that this has happened was with Louis XV and that was because his mom was dead.

The fact that Henri III doesn't get crowned at Rheims means that possibly Guise and de Lorraine survive.
 
As to regencies France (unlike their neighbors over the Channel) preferred the queen mother (in this case, Elisabeth of Austria (who might only end up as de jure regent, with Catherine pulling the strings as de facto) to an uncle. In fact, the only time since the Renaissance that this has happened was with Louis XV and that was because his mom was dead.

Charles VI regency was also the one of uncles.
But in this case Catherine will maybe prop up Elisabeth - a political non-entity - as de jure regent, especially since her claim is the best by customs, while keeping dear uncles Henri (of Navarre) and Francois as far away from the custody of the King as possible, and spend 1575-1584 brutally murdering opposition, Huguenot and then ultra-Catholic. Duc de Guise will likely end up assassinated as OTL, and France will be a political non-entity in foreign policy in this period. In 1584 the peace is signed and cemented by marriage of Duc d'Alencon and Catherine of Navarre. For all Elisabeth I match brings, the civil war atmosphere makes it unlikely.
The formative years of Charles X thus, as I said, may be even worse than the ones of Louis XIV, and France ends up with hyper-absolutist "never again" reign half a century earlier than OTL. Marie de Medici will likely be selected as a Queen for financial reasons - 10 to 15 years of Civil War are not good for country budget. As for intervention in Portugal - 1590ies are too late for this to matter, and it will be the earliest TTL France can into anything.
 
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One other thing: at one point in 1580 Catherine de' Medici attempted to put forward a claim to the vacant throne of Portugal. I can't remember on whose behalf, but it could be very interesting later down the line. Maybe Charles X will decide he likes how his name sounds in Portuguese?

Apparently t was on her behalf, but I can't find any serious source about her claim. All the references I got indicate that she claimed the Portuguese throne in virtue of being an descendent of Afonso III (who lived in the XIII Century) and Matilda of Bolougne, but that is simply stupid, as they didn't have children together.
 
Gonzaga, speakin' of this... I'd like to consider the possibility of Duarte of Guemaraes surviving TTL.
Since the ACTUAL PoD is 1572 (a boy is born instead of a girl) we have about 4 years to change his fate, since diplomatic\marriage relations through the Europe will see the ripples quite soon. Any chance he may marry before Sebastian? Sebastian may be mysogynic, but TTL BOTH Margot Valois and Elisabeth of Austria are off limits (in OTL there existed slim possibility that Elisabeth will remarry, here it's null and void from the start). So while searching for suitable wife, he may give permit to his cousin to marry...whom?
 
Gonzaga, speakin' of this... I'd like to consider the possibility of Duarte of Guemaraes surviving TTL.
Since the ACTUAL PoD is 1572 (a boy is born instead of a girl) we have about 4 years to change his fate, since diplomatic\marriage relations through the Europe will see the ripples quite soon. Any chance he may marry before Sebastian? Sebastian may be mysogynic, but TTL BOTH Margot Valois and Elisabeth of Austria are off limits (in OTL there existed slim possibility that Elisabeth will remarry, here it's null and void from the start). So while searching for suitable wife, he may give permit to his cousin to marry...whom?

Very unlikely. For some reason that no one explained entirely Sebastian disliked Duarte (he didn't invite him to court events, and several times gave preference to António of Crato over the Duke of Guimarães). I can't see Duarte being allowed to marry before the king had done so. If he marries while Sebastian is alive, it would be a lower marriage (a Habsburg bastard or some Portuguese noble woman).
 
Very unlikely. For some reason that no one explained entirely Sebastian disliked Duarte (he didn't invite him to court events, and several times gave preference to António of Crato over the Duke of Guimarães). I can't see Duarte being allowed to marry before the king had done so. If he marries while Sebastian is alive, it would be a lower marriage (a Habsburg bastard or some Portuguese noble woman).
We did debate with you about Sebastian mistreating Duarte, and I am aware of this mistreatment, however you told that I was overexagerrating its seriousness.
If Duarte travels to France in 1574 for some reason (invited to baptism of Dauphin) what are the odds he meets the OTL wife of Henri III (though Louisa was infertile, so it makes little sense)?
For Portuguese noblewoman - there is Isabel de Braganza, daughter of Teodosio I (b.1560) - can Braganzas and Guimaraes opt for double match (Joao+Caterine & Duarte + Isabel)? Though Isabel also had no children with her OTL husband.
 
We did debate with you about Sebastian mistreating Duarte, and I am aware of this mistreatment, however you told that I was overexagerrating its seriousness.
If Duarte travels to France in 1574 for some reason (invited to baptism of Dauphin) what are the odds he meets the OTL wife of Henri III (though Louisa was infertile, so it makes little sense)?
For Portuguese noblewoman - there is Isabel de Braganza, daughter of Teodosio I (b.1560) - can Braganzas and Guimaraes opt for double match (Joao+Caterine & Duarte + Isabel)? Though Isabel also had no children with her OTL husband.

It wasn't serious to the point of Duarte being seen as a threat, but in the 1570's Sebastian preferred Antonio over Duarte, basically because the Prior of Crato was more amenable to the king's ideas regarding North Africa than Guimarães. Also, Sebastian was under pressure to marry, and he wouldn't accept that his cousin would marry before him.
Of course, it could change if António falls out of favour with Sebastian for some reason and Duarte is more "accepting" of the king's plans. Probably he could marry Juliana of Lencastre, the only daughter and heiress of Jorge of Lencastre, the 2nd Duke of Aveiro. They were a bastard branch of the Aviz and the second richest noble family in the country after the Braganzas. It would be a nice match, as Duarte's sister Catherine married the Duke of Braganza.
 
Louise de Lorraine-Mercoeur wasn't necessarily barren, there are some who suspect she was pregnant in 1574-75, but suffered a miscarriage gone wrong that rendered her barren.

Also Anna Vasa's Protestantism could prove an interesting addition to the Valois menagerie if she marries Henri III.
 
Would the Polish nobility accept that he would marry anyone other than Anna Jagellion? I know the time he spent in Poland was too short, but was there any information about marriage plans for him?
 
The marriage to Anna Jr is for the case he outlives her aunt Anna Sr., to make sure he can still claim throne jure uxoris - technically Brandenburg branch are more senior than the Wasas, but Anna Sr herself proposed to educate her niece at Polish court and viewed her and her brother as heirs apparent of hers (which happened in OTL). So remarrying the young Swedish princess is the best thing for Henri to do if he DOES marry Anna Sr and outlives her.
 
The marriage to Anna Jr is for the case he outlives her aunt Anna Sr., to make sure he can still claim throne jure uxoris - technically Brandenburg branch are more senior than the Wasas, but Anna Sr herself proposed to educate her niece at Polish court and viewed her and her brother as heirs apparent of hers (which happened in OTL). So remarrying the young Swedish princess is the best thing for Henri to do if he DOES marry Anna Sr and outlives her.

I thought that Henri became King via election. Legally there was nothing to force him to marry Anna of Poland, especially since its pretty obvious that she won't have children. I think it would be better for the Anna of Poland to get over marrying at 50 and step aside in favor of her niece Anna of Sweden. It still gives the next generation a blood claim to the throne and insures that the Polish Valois have a second generation.
 
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