Charles IV, Duke of Alencon has issue

So, Charles IV, Duke of Alencon was born in 1489 married Margaret, sister of Francis I of France, though they did not have any issue, and from 1515-1525, he was first prince of the blood.

My query is this, let us say that Charles and Margaret have a son, born in say 1512, named Louis most likely for the King on the throne at the time, and Charles survived past Pavia into old age, and so on and so forth, what consequences could this have?

What consequences would there be if the House of Valois-Alencon survived into the time of the Wars of Religion and any possible thinning of the main Valois branch?
 
So, Charles IV, Duke of Alencon was born in 1489 married Margaret, sister of Francis I of France, though they did not have any issue, and from 1515-1525, he was first prince of the blood.

My query is this, let us say that Charles and Margaret have a son, born in say 1512, named Louis most likely for the King on the throne at the time, and Charles survived past Pavia into old age, and so on and so forth, what consequences could this have?

What consequences would there be if the House of Valois-Alencon survived into the time of the Wars of Religion and any possible thinning of the main Valois branch?

Quite obviously : by Salic Law, the Alençons have precedence over the Bourbons for succession to throne of France when the Valois become extinct in 1589.
 
Quite obviously : by Salic Law, the Alençons have precedence over the Bourbons for succession to throne of France when the Valois become extinct in 1589.
Indeed they do, but would butterflies prevent the Valois extinction or was that inevitable? And with the wars of religion itself could they be never ending considering how powerful the bourbon family is
 
Indeed they do, but would butterflies prevent the Valois extinction or was that inevitable? And with the wars of religion itself could they be never ending considering how powerful the bourbon family is

Well the children of Henri II weren't very healthy, plus all of his sons failed to have living male issue, they struggled to even have daughters. I think only Princess Margaret managed to have living children with her Bourbon husband.

Plus... Charles's wife is pretty interesting in her own right, she was heavily influenced by the emerging Protestant movement, she wrote a pretty controversial tract that was seen as heretical by Catholic theologians, if she had been even of slightly lesser status she'd have risked being executed. Not to mention that she was an influence on Anne Boleyn.

So the Alencons might wind up playing the role that the Bourbons did in RL anyway.
 
Indeed they do, but would butterflies prevent the Valois extinction or was that inevitable? And with the wars of religion itself could they be never ending considering how powerful the bourbon family is

IIRC between the death of the Constable and the marriage of the duc de Vendôme and the queen of Navarre the Bourbons weren't exactly riding high. Proof of this is that Marguerite walked away with the lion's share of the Alençon lands despite her marriage not having kids, while the duchesse de Vendôme was the late duc d'Alençon's sister. So, the Bourbons could remain a sort of power, but they weren't all powerful.
 
Well the children of Henri II weren't very healthy, plus all of his sons failed to have living male issue, they struggled to even have daughters. I think only Princess Margaret managed to have living children with her Bourbon husband.

Plus... Charles's wife is pretty interesting in her own right, she was heavily influenced by the emerging Protestant movement, she wrote a pretty controversial tract that was seen as heretical by Catholic theologians, if she had been even of slightly lesser status she'd have risked being executed. Not to mention that she was an influence on Anne Boleyn.

So the Alencons might wind up playing the role that the Bourbons did in RL anyway.

Oh very interesting, so a possible semi Protestant branch living in the shadows, anyway, and I imagine then that if Margaret has a son by Alencon that she's less likely to marry Henry II of Navarre itself, which butterflies Jeanne III, thus changing more history.

IIRC between the death of the Constable and the marriage of the duc de Vendôme and the queen of Navarre the Bourbons weren't exactly riding high. Proof of this is that Marguerite walked away with the lion's share of the Alençon lands despite her marriage not having kids, while the duchesse de Vendôme was the late duc d'Alençon's sister. So, the Bourbons could remain a sort of power, but they weren't all powerful.

This is true, so the ALencon are likely to remain the more powerful of the branches, thus negating the Bourbons somewhat.
 
The survival of the Alencon line, through children of Charles and Marguerite (and they could definitely have had multiple children, because she had two in her late 30's/early 40's with the King of Navarre) is probably going to take the position of the Bourbons. They'll be somewhat of an annoyance to the later Valois, and if they make it to the 1600's, then they'll rule.

The loss of Marguerite as a bride means someone else needs to marry Henri II of Navarre. France has no spare princesses available, so he'll either marry a French noblewoman who's available, or someone of comparable stature from elsewhere. I can see him being betrothed to Catherine of Austria for a minute, before she's sent to Portugal to take Eleanor of Austria's place when Manuel I of Portugal makes his decision to marry her himself. He might actually end up with Eleanor if he's unmarried in the mid 1520's. If not her, then perhaps a Guise girl, or one of the sisters of Charles III, Duke of Bourbon.
 
Okay interesting would there be as much power playing between the crown and the Alencon as there was between the crown and burbon?

And seeing Henry II married to either Eleanor of Austria or a sister of Charles duke of Bourbon would be good.

As for the children for alencon is three reasonable amount? One boy two
Girls?
 
I have a thought on Henri II of Navarre, one of the things that helped keep the Bourbons powerful while holding such a small kingdom right in between France and Spain were their extensive lands in France (which made them French vassals in many respects).

If Henri can't marry a Princess, he could settle for a wealthy French heiress, even if she's of lower rank, if she's in line to inherit a nice chunk of land then that lady is valuable even if it's a bit beneath a King's dignity to wed her. Henri could bite the bullet just to increase his lands a bit. Plus it gives his heirs something else to fall back on if the worst happens and Spain seizes Navarre.
 
Regarding the children of the Duke of Alencon, how does this sound:

Louis (b. 1512)

Margaret (b. 1515)

Isabella (b. 1520)
 
Very true. Who might such an heiress be?

What about Anne or Catherine de Laval? They'd be the daughters of the Comte de Laval and Charlotte of Naples? Catherine only had two daughters OTL and Anne was the mother of all future la Trémoïlle princes. Of course, Louise Borgues is also drifting through the court after her de la Trémoïlle husband dies, as are the d'Albret daughters of the Sieur d'Orval who married the Comte de Nevers and the Comte de Comminges OTL
 
Hmm interesting, Anne de Laval would be really interesting considering her background, and potential for drama.
 
Hmm interesting, Anne de Laval would be really interesting considering her background, and potential for drama.

Potential for drama, yes. But Catherine de Laval is the elder of the two ladies. Also, why can't Navarre marry Renée de France, OTL's duchess of Ferrara? A royal match is certainly a step up from a mere duke. And Navarre is pretty much always pro-French, so there's no fear that if Claude's line of Valois die out, Brittany's going to end up in the hands of an unfriendly power?
 
Potential for drama, yes. But Catherine de Laval is the elder of the two ladies. Also, why can't Navarre marry Renée de France, OTL's duchess of Ferrara? A royal match is certainly a step up from a mere duke. And Navarre is pretty much always pro-French, so there's no fear that if Claude's line of Valois die out, Brittany's going to end up in the hands of an unfriendly power?

Very true, very true
 
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