Charles Clifford, son of Henry Clifford, 2nd Earl of Cumberland survives

So, I had this thought on this matter:

Edward VI increasingly becomes convinced that he's not going to survive for long or long enough to have issue, therefore, he writes out his last will and also his declaration of who is successor is, using his father's example as precedent for this. In it, he confirms his nephew Edward Dudley as his heir under a regency led by the Dudley family, failing that, his successor is to be Charles Clifford, under a regency also. I'm thinking that when Edward eventually clocks it in 1553, Northumberland goes out of his way to ensure that his grandson is confirmed as the new King, having the lords of the regency council swear fealty to him including Clifford as well, and then sending men to arrest Lady Mary.
The line of succession will probably be as follows (based on Edward's OTL will, I'm assuming he'll keep it to the male line, with females transmitting claims to their sons and (if there are no males available) taking the throne :
  1. Edward Dudley, and later his descendants
  2. Brothers of Edward Dudley
  3. Male descendants of Edward Dudley's sisters
  4. Charles Clifford
  5. Male descendants of Charles Clifford
  6. Male descendants of Katherine Grey
  7. Male descendants of Mary Grey
  8. Male descendants of Margaret Clifford
 
The line of succession will probably be as follows (based on Edward's OTL will, I'm assuming he'll keep it to the male line, with females transmitting claims to their sons and (if there are no males available) taking the throne :
  1. Edward Dudley, and later his descendants
  2. Brothers of Edward Dudley
  3. Male descendants of Edward Dudley's sisters
  4. Charles Clifford
  5. Male descendants of Charles Clifford
  6. Male descendants of Katherine Grey
  7. Male descendants of Mary Grey
  8. Male descendants of Margaret Clifford

That definitely seems likely, which will probably ensure that anyone who hates the Dudleys will side with Mary. I think we might be in for a bit of a civil war here
 
That definitely seems likely, which will probably ensure that anyone who hates the Dudleys will side with Mary. I think we might be in for a bit of a civil war here
Mary will have a strong argument: who wants another (even longer) regency for the two-year-old Edward when you could have the adult Mary. Of course, the Dudley response would be persuasive too: who wants the Catholic Mary who might not produce an heir when you have a protestant boy and, by extension, his parents who are ready to produce spares to the throne.
 
Mary will have a strong argument: who wants another (even longer) regency for the two-year-old Edward when you could have the adult Mary. Of course, the Dudley response would be persuasive too: who wants the Catholic Mary who might not produce an heir when you have a protestant boy and, by extension, his parents who are ready to produce spares to the throne.

Definitely, and of course this time, Dudley actually has a child he can use, whereas otl he didn't. And the testimony of the late King as such. Mary's got nothing more than her own word and perhaps some fading popularity.
 
So, I had this thought on this matter:

Edward VI increasingly becomes convinced that he's not going to survive for long or long enough to have issue, therefore, he writes out his last will and also his declaration of who is successor is, using his father's example as precedent for this. In it, he confirms his nephew Edward Dudley as his heir under a regency led by the Dudley family, failing that, his successor is to be Charles Clifford, under a regency also. I'm thinking that when Edward eventually clocks it in 1553, Northumberland goes out of his way to ensure that his grandson is confirmed as the new King, having the lords of the regency council swear fealty to him including Clifford as well, and then sending men to arrest Lady Mary.

Mary will have a strong argument: who wants another (even longer) regency for the two-year-old Edward when you could have the adult Mary. Of course, the Dudley response would be persuasive too: who wants the Catholic Mary who might not produce an heir when you have a protestant boy and, by extension, his parents who are ready to produce spares to the throne.

Then Robert and/or Elizabeth will rule in name of their son...
Here Edward VI’s correction of his father’s will is much more logical than the OTL one and totally coherent with the logics who had ruled English’s succession until that moment (aka a woman had never ruled England in her own right but had often transmitted power to her son (or husband).
Mary is an old Catholic virgin likely too old for having an heir and England was never ruled by a woman,
baby Edward VII is the nephew of the King and the only male grandchild of Henry VIII and his parent are young enough to provide England with many spares. The most logical alternatives to Edward VII would be a) Charles Clifford as the only other male descendant of Henry VII and married to the next heiress after Elizabeth Dudley or b) Robert Dudley as husband of Elizabeth (first woman in line to be already married/engaged)
 
The line of succession will probably be as follows (based on Edward's OTL will, I'm assuming he'll keep it to the male line, with females transmitting claims to their sons and (if there are no males available) taking the throne :
  1. Edward Dudley, and later his descendants
  2. Brothers of Edward Dudley
  3. Male descendants of Edward Dudley's sisters
  4. Charles Clifford
  5. Male descendants of Charles Clifford
  6. Male descendants of Jane Grey (if not equal to 5)
  7. Male descendants of Katherine Grey
  8. Male descendants of Mary Grey
  9. Male descendants of Margaret Clifford

Looks fine, I had made only a slight correction covering the possibility of an early death of Charles and a remarriage with children for Jane Grey
 
How big of a scandal would it be for Robert Dudley and Elizabeth to marry
Depends on whether they get Edward's permission or not. With permission - there will be a few eyebrows raised at the difference in their status, but Edward can easily solve that by raising Robert to the peerage in his own right - perhaps he gets the Earldom of Leicester earlier ITTL - and people will probably just say Elizabeth is taking after her aunt the Duchess of Suffolk in marrying a man beneath her. They should be able to weather the storm easily enough. Without Edward's permission, however? It's a whole other shit-storm...

NB: When I had one of Elizabeth's brothers arrange her a Dudley match in 'Bastard Slips', I married her to Guilford instead of Robert and had her have an affair with the latter, which was an open secret. That was fun... I should have gone into more details about that. Maybe one day I will do....
 
How big of a scandal would it be for Robert Dudley and Elizabeth to marry
Depends on the nature of the wedding. An elopement would obviously be a scandal, but if its an arranged marriage by Edward and John Dudley (Dudley wants another into the royal family, Edward wants his sister providing spares), then all should be ok.

One idea is to still have Amy Robsart marry into the Dudleys (as John really wanted influence in Norfolk, where Amy was the heiress to her father's lands) but have her marry Ambrose or Guildford Dudley instead. That leaves Robert free to marry Elizabeth, possibly to get her settled down after the scandal with Thomas Seymour (which can be used to explain away why Elizabeth is marrying below her status, she's a maybe bastard who has rumors about her propriety (even though it was more 'Seymour tries to take advantage of her sexually', that's neither here nor there)).
 
Depends on whether they get Edward's permission or not. With permission - there will be a few eyebrows raised at the difference in their status, but Edward can easily solve that by raising Robert to the peerage in his own right - perhaps he gets the Earldom of Leicester earlier ITTL - and people will probably just say Elizabeth is taking after her aunt the Duchess of Suffolk in marrying a man beneath her. They should be able to weather the storm easily enough. Without Edward's permission, however? It's a whole other shit-storm...

NB: When I had one of Elizabeth's brothers arrange her a Dudley match in 'Bastard Slips', I married her to Guilford instead of Robert and had her have an affair with the latter, which was an open secret. That was fun... I should have gone into more details about that. Maybe one day I will do....
Oh I remember reading that! And alright interesting.
Depends on the nature of the wedding. An elopement would obviously be a scandal, but if its an arranged marriage by Edward and John Dudley (Dudley wants another into the royal family, Edward wants his sister providing spares), then all should be ok.

One idea is to still have Amy Robsart marry into the Dudleys (as John really wanted influence in Norfolk, where Amy was the heiress to her father's lands) but have her marry Ambrose or Guildford Dudley instead. That leaves Robert free to marry Elizabeth, possibly to get her settled down after the scandal with Thomas Seymour (which can be used to explain away why Elizabeth is marrying below her status, she's a maybe bastard who has rumors about her propriety (even though it was more 'Seymour tries to take advantage of her sexually', that's neither here nor there)).
this is very true with ambrose married
To Amy I can see Dudley pushing Edward to marry Elizabeth to Robert and framing it as a sort d way to kill two birds with one stone
 
How big of a scandal would it be for Robert Dudley and Elizabeth to marry
Well, remember who, while she was daughter of a King and of a crowned Queen, Lady Elizabeth Tudor is not a princess because her father declared her illegitimate and Robert is a son of the very powerful Lord Protector of England so a wedding between them is possible if they are both free.

Depends on the nature of the wedding. An elopement would obviously be a scandal, but if its an arranged marriage by Edward and John Dudley (Dudley wants another into the royal family, Edward wants his sister providing spares), then all should be ok.

One idea is to still have Amy Robsart marry into the Dudleys (as John really wanted influence in Norfolk, where Amy was the heiress to her father's lands) but have her marry Ambrose or Guildford Dudley instead. That leaves Robert free to marry Elizabeth, possibly to get her settled down after the scandal with Thomas Seymour (which can be used to explain away why Elizabeth is marrying below her status, she's a maybe bastard who has rumors about her propriety (even though it was more 'Seymour tries to take advantage of her sexually', that's neither here nor there)).

I would say to marry Amy Robsart to Guildford Dudley (as they both need another spouse) because here John Dudley’s attention will be on a match between Elizabeth and Robert who are close, as Jane Grey is out of his reach being already engaged to her cousin Charles Clifford and Catherine Grey is already engaged to Herbert (after the breakup of her engagement with Seymour’s eldest son, who now is engaged to Margaret Clifford)
 
The line of succession will probably be as follows (based on Edward's OTL will, I'm assuming he'll keep it to the male line, with females transmitting claims to their sons and (if there are no males available) taking the throne :
  1. Edward Dudley, and later his descendants
  2. Brothers of Edward Dudley
  3. Male descendants of Edward Dudley's sisters
  4. Male descendants of Jane Grey
  5. Male descendants of Katherine Grey
  6. Male descendants of Mary Grey
  7. Charles Clifford
  8. Male descendants of Charles Clifford (if not equal to 4)
  9. Male descendants of Margaret Clifford
Sorry, this one is the correct order of succession established by Edward VI. I can not believe who I was so distract earlier to confirm a wrong tree...
After Edward all the heirs came from female lines so the order of succession established by Henry VIII need to be respected and that put Charles Clifford and his line after and not before the one of the Grey sisters (but obviously the boy need to be already born for inheriting the Crown so at Edward VI’s death the line of succession include only Edward Dudley and Charles Clifford)
 
Another point of query for this, what sort of thing would you all like to see in the dudlian age and how much influence should Edward VII dudleys parents have when he becomes an adult
 
Another point of query for this, what sort of thing would you all like to see in the dudlian age and how much influence should Edward VII dudleys parents have when he becomes an adult

One thing that would be interesting is if Edward learns to value his mother's political acumen and, especially once she's widowed, gives her a relatively prominent role for a Queen Dowager/Mother. I could see her proving herself early by holding down London for Edward VII after the King's death while the Dudley men (John, Robert and co) go secure the rest of the country (and one of them, probably Robert or John Sr. so no one screws it up, secures Mary under house arrest), proving herself as a capable regent when the King leaves London.
 
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One thing that would be interesting is if Edward learns to value his mother's political acumen and, especially once she's widowed, gives her a relatively prominent role for a Queen Dowager/Mother. I could see her proving herself early by holding down London for Edward VII after the King's death while the Dudley men (John, Robert and co) go secure the rest of the country (and one of them, probably Robert or John Sr. so no one screws it up, secures Mary under house arrest), proving herself as a capable regent when the King leaves London.
I like that. I can see courtiers and ambassadors whispering of how the kings father and mother are the brightest sparks at count
 
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