Change One Thing About TL 191

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by PGSBHurricane, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. PGSBHurricane Well-Known Member

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    It’s a good introduction to the alternate history genre but later installments put too much focus on historical parallels for the sake of drama. Thus, how would you change any of these parallels?

    For me it would be not to go ahead with the Population Reduction. I get that the CSA was supposed to represent Nazi Germany and the blacks were stand-ins for the Jews. But the difference is that Jews were usually less than 10% of any European country’s population whereas in the Confederacy blacks usually comprised of anywhere between 20 and 50 percent of state populations. You would be killing off way too much of your labor force to be viable. Maybe instead you could transfer the role of Nazi Germany stand-in to Russia where anti-semitism was already rampant. In the CSA perhaps you could use divide and conquer among the black population and put them against each other or use industrial slavery if push came to shove.

    Note: I do not condone genocide in any fashion and this is just an exercise in alternate history.
     
  2. LordandsaviorKloka Son of Gondor

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    No Mormon bashing. Canada stays independent,minus the Maritime provinces (which Quebec absorbs).
     
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  3. farmerted555 Well-Known Member

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    Don't have the US Army copy German uniform and helmet designs.
     
  4. Hindustani Person We live in a society :(

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    Hawaii stays independent under British influence
     
  5. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    Just ONE thing?

    Dang, man.

    In that case... Have Mexico keep its territorial divisions into 50 departments, which means that the Confederate annexation of Mexican land would consist of the departments of Chihuahua, Sonora, Arizona, and California.

    This, of course, would mean that Mexico is no longer a neighbor to the USA.
     
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  6. Zheng He Well-Known Member

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    More attention (at least some interlude type chapters) dealing with the larger war that was going on.
     
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  7. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    No Confederate nuclear bomb, and especially within a few weeks of deployment of the Union. Just consider why would the foreign scientists decide to immigrate to the Confederacy?
     
  8. Merried Seinor Comic What Does My Name Even Mean?

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    No sex scenes.

    Or heck, have the Russians sell Alaska to the British as they also wanted Alaska OTL.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
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  9. Pera Well-Known Member

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    One of the things many people thought made the timeline unrealistic was how the CSA could match the USA despite the much smaller population. Turtlediove could have addressed that by making the US earlier more paranoid and hostile to non WASP immigrants. And post WWI many minorities in the AH and Ottoman empire would be disgruntled and oppressed. The CSA could welcome them by the millions and so actively change the black and white ratio and the population deficit compared to the USA:
     
  10. Oliver Lambkin Well-Known Member

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    The USA annexes all of the CSA following GW1. The Great Depression ends in 1932, with the Pacific War. That war ends with the destruction of the Japanese Empire.
     
  11. Eparkhos_Ton_Trapezous Dux Theodoros ton Khaldeia

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    I second this.
     
  12. Oliver Lambkin Well-Known Member

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    The bit about sex scenes I fully agree with. I think HT just put those in to shock a bit, you know what I mean?
    About Alaska, though, I don't see the Russians selling the territory to their Great Game rival.
     
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  13. m0585 Well-Known Member

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    Turtledove not intentionally fixing the scales to have the CSA match/hold off the U.S. for four years in two wars.
     
  14. wilji1090 [Going Waffles]

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    Since people have cornered the market on demanding no sex scenes from Turtledove...

    Mine would be keeping Gordon McSweeney alive because it'd be very interesting to see the pyromaniac living in peace time.

    Or, barring that, have the Radical Liberals win the CSA Election of 1933.
     
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  15. Merried Seinor Comic What Does My Name Even Mean?

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    Shock? That's a funny way to say "completely take me out of the worldbuilding". I mean, I start getting into this world and the people in it and BAM! I'm reading about how Hosea Blackford's schlong is different from the schlongs Flora Hamburger usually sees.

    Just makes me put the book down.
     
  16. PGSBHurricane Well-Known Member

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    My second choice would be to have the Mexican Empire disposed of and have France collapse into a Republic as in OTL. There’s no reason for that not to happen. It only did because of “plot.” Plus, it would probably shake up the alliances heading into the Great Wars.
     
  17. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

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    ONE thing?

    No clue. I'm spoiled for choice.

    Changes I would definitely make, though:
    1. No Mormon terrorists (and indeed no Deseret rebellion nonsense). It's cliche and poorly researched.
    2. Preferably I'd have How Few Remain be the story of a 1880s militarized major-power USA steamrolling the Confederacy and gutting the Southern military like a fish before forcibly reconstructing Southern society. Failing that, let-wing-dominated USA and black socialist rebels destroy the Confederacy in the 1910s in WW1. If I absolutely HAVE to follow the general structure of the books, have the Union be a futurist dictatorship in WW2. Real "it can't happen here" thing where a lunatic (I've outlined an idea of alt-William Dudley Pelley getting hooked on "hybrid vigor" racism before) pseudo-progressive leader takes power promising the dismantlement of the Southern state and the annihilation of the "Southern race", and Featherston is still a monster but he gets crushed before he can try an alt-Holocaust. Have the ending message be "yes the genocide was stopped but now a crazy man is going to forcibly re-educate an entire generation in internment camps, is this really much better?" Reinforce that any kind of Southern victory is dystopian by default.
    3. No sex scenes. Period.
     
  18. James Ricker Own your mistakes

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    Have the Second Great War go badly for the Confederates earlier and before they surrender they get stomped on a lot harder. The union strategy will be the complete and utter destruction of the Confederate Army.
    By 1943 the Confederacy would be taking casualties on par with what the Soviet Union was taking in 1941. In 1944 it would be taking casualties on par with Paraguay in the war of the Triple Alliance.
    What are the more interesting things would be when are the Featherstone tries to fight dirty the union Fights Back dirtier and the Confederacy gets hurt worse.
    He uses mustard gas against the union and they retaliate with nerve gas.
    The Confederate nuclear program would be bombed into Oblivion by union bombers dropping chlorine trifluoride bombs on it before it could make any progress.
    In his retreat Jake Featherstone orders a scorched-earth policy and unlike Adolf Hitler's order this one is carried out. The series ends when the only territory the Confederacy controls is about one-third of Georgia and Atlanta is nuked. Jake Featherstone suffering from radiation poisoning is captured and executed by Black partisans and it is filmed by Union reporters embedded with the partisans and shown to the world.
    The last remnants of the Confederate Army less than 35 thousand troops with a high percentage of old men and teenage boys surrender unconditionally.
    Total military deaths for the Confederacy would be 4.5 million civilian deaths would be another 10 million.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  19. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

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    ...yes please...
     
  20. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    The history of France in TL-191 is pretty much the same as in OTL until 1917. Nowhere in the books does it say that the Second French Empire and the House of Bonaparte are still in power.

    Oh, that scene...

    I hope I am remembering wrong, but didn't Flora compare Hosea's privates to that of her male siblings?

    That whole part of reading threw me off. Like, "Why would she be that specific during such an intimate moment?!"
     
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