Challenge: US Foreign Legion

With a 1945 POD, have one created along the French model.

The U.S doesn't have any colonies and considering it's built its reputation during the last 250 years as an opponant of Imperialism I can't see how you are going to do this. Maybe you could have the U.S invade the Japanese mainland and create a military dictatorship after, with other Foreigners fighting for America against communist expantion for example - Japanese, South Korean and Chinese Nationalists.
 
The U.S doesn't have any colonies and considering it's built its reputation during the last 250 years as an opponent of Imperialism

You have a marvelous gift for sarcasm. It would be more accrurate to write that Americans have traditionally not seen themselves as a imperial power. I live in a city, Toronto, that was burned by American forces attempting to liberate us from the British. In the end official and unofficial American forces tried to "liberate" Canada 3 times. In this case and others sending forces to conquer was seen as an anti-imperialistic action because American troops were "liberating".

Read your own military history.
 
The US did have a unit made up of Filipinos in the US army, the Philippine Scouts. After the end of WWII and Philippines independence this unit was abolished. There was some concern about enlisting citizens of a foreign. However during wartime many countries are more ready to enlist foreigners.

The question is can the Philippine Scouts be saved and evolve into something like a Gurkha unit. You need nearly every senior US officer to lobby to keep the Philippine Scouts as a unit. After the unit was dissolved former scouts were given US citizenship and enlisted in us forces. A little more lobbying by MacArthur could do it.
 
Tricky, particularly the POD. Remember the French Foreign Legion's origins come from the Post-Napoleonic Period. The young male population had been obliterated and as France expanded into North Africa in the 1820s and hoped to return to its position as one of the key European powers it needed boots on the ground. As such the Legion was basically France paying foriegners to fight for them, and the units reputation saw it continue long after it was nessecary.

I don't believe Empire building, direct or otherwise is key to a US Foreign Legion. Rather the need for troops being met by recruitment overseas. Here the USA has obvious mass influx of immigrants making such needs nonexistant for most of its history.

The only time a true USFL would be formed IMO would be during the nation's first 50 years or so when the threat of Brits, Indians, Mexicans and even Barbary pirates all might overstretch the Republic's small population base. Say a more bloody War of 1812? A prolonged US presence in North Africa? Maybe even direct American involvement in the Napoleonic Wars? All offer possible situations were the Yanks will truly require foreign soldiers to help.

This doesn't follow the OP guidelines but really a vast population and a history of heavy immigration make specialised foreign units in the Legion's mold seem pretty impossible post-1945.

The only thing I can think of is a Gurkha style force as suggested by the Baron. Filippino scouts is an option, another that leaps to mind is the Hmong of Vietnam. Say the Americans take a more indirect involvement in 'Nam, focusing on inbedding elite units in local forces and the fortified village strategy aiming for hearts and minds over body count. the War goes better for the South, plus say the State Department takes advantage of the Sino-Soviet split alot earlier and gets Chinese help cutting off Soviet aid to the North.

Regardless, the War is won or at least a Korean style stalemate is sorted out. The Hmong, instead of being mass evacuated to America, are granted a Gurkha style deal due to their fanatical anti-communism and martial prowess. Their economic conditions makes such enlsitment an obvious 'easy' way of bringing real wealth back to the Hmong villages. So after a successful though bloody war the United States has a solid stock of loyal, elite troops more tolerant of combat losses and detached from the problems of conscription and dropping enlistment numbers in an increasingy dovish USA.

As such Hmong battalions see action around the world, often acting as the first wave in any conventional military action, with paritcular attention to deployments in hilly and tropical combat zones.
 
I was sort of thinking something along the lines of creating a sort of colonial unit. So Hispanics (Puerto Ricans, Filipinos, maybe Cubans) could join in the military without being mixed in with white units.

Eh, just noticed the 1945 POD... Guess not, then. >_<

I live in a city, Toronto, that was burned by American forces attempting to liberate us from the British. In the end official and unofficial American forces tried to "liberate" Canada 3 times. .

:rolleyes:

First was during the Revolutionary War. In this case, not only were we asked to invade Canada (some communities in... New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, I think, absolutely begged the Continental Congress to liberate them), but this was before we had really formed any sort of modern identity. We were a motley crew of rebels, each with different ideals, rather than modern Americans. Second time was War of 1812, and we were more or less just trying to hold Canada at ransom to get Britain to compromise on other issues, and as a preemptive strike (Britain had already threatened to attack us). Go to the pre-1900 forum, look for the relatively recent "WI the British won the War of 1812" thread, and I have a very lengthy refutation on the Imperialist America idea that managed to convert a few. And the third is what? I couldn't think of anything, so I looked it up on Wikipedia, and only saw a band of a couple of hundred Americans aid the failed Canadian Revolution in 1837. That doesn't count.

I don't want to derail this thread, though; if you have a response to this, please PM me, and I'll gladly debate it.
 
There has been a proposal for an American Foreign Legion of sorts by some neoconservatives.
As for Canadians and the USA, it is worth noting that a number of Canadians have enlisted in the US armed forces. Quite a few (percentage wise) have won the Medal of Honor.
 
American FL

Actually when I was an undergrad I did a term paper on colonial merc. units like the French FL and ran across something in real world history that comes close.

If I recall correctly as planning for the invasion of the Japanese home islands progressed senior level planers were become very concerned about the expected casualties and what impact they would have on home front morale. (The planners did not know about the manhattan project)

One of the plans that was seriously considered was to recruit german volunteers from among the POWs being held CONUS. (There were several hundred thousand by this time) The interesting part was that it was some German Officers who suggested the idea.

With the surrender of Germany senior level leadership in the US stared to take the idea seriously. The plan was for at least 4 divisions + (If I recall they were debating between 4 infantry Divs. with an Armored regiment, Airborne Regiment, and Mountain Inf. Regiment or 3 Infantry Divs. 1 Mech. Div and the specialized regiments) with Americans handling logistics and signals to keep control.

It was reportedly taken as high as the WH, where the politicos balked, supposedly over constitutional authority but probably resistance was more about using former Nazis as combat troops. Still the legal issues were being worked through to the point that recruiting had begun with volunteers being screened and moved to separate training camps.

The Trinity test killed the idea.

However if trinity had not worked and the Germans had performed well enough the seeds for an American foreign legion could be sown. This is particularly true if the propaganda needed to make the force palatable to the American population was especially successful and the idea spread that the foreign volunteers saved american lives.

Given that American politicos would be falling all over themselves to keep such a force on the rolls.
 
You have a marvelous gift for sarcasm. It would be more accrurate to write that Americans have traditionally not seen themselves as a imperial power. I live in a city, Toronto, that was burned by American forces attempting to liberate us from the British. In the end official and unofficial American forces tried to "liberate" Canada 3 times. In this case and others sending forces to conquer was seen as an anti-imperialistic action because American troops were "liberating".

Read your own military history.

Well I'm British so that doesn't really work, but even so America has been dominated by Anti-Imperial powers by the nature of its creation (Expantionist powers however are a different story)
 
So lets proceed from the assumption that the german volunteer corps was formed and used.

ATL begins
As the Summer of 1945 progresses formation of the German Volunteer Corps / Deutches Friwilligen Korps continues apace with 3 Infantry Division, 1 Mech. Infantry Division along with 1 Panzer Regt. 1 Mountain Regt. and 1 Airborne Regt. latter being joined by 1 combined air wing of volunteer luftwaffe flyers.

In June 1945 the germans were joined by small force of Italian volunteers who were formed into 1 Mountain, 1 Airborne, and 1 Infantry regiment.

The rearming of German and Italian troops caused fiction with the Soviets but American leaders, worried about slippage in the American publics support for the war and the upcoming 1946 elections pressed ahead. They were convinced that every volunteer who died invading Japan would be one American voter who remained alive.

With the invasion of Japan the foreign volunteers were committed to battle in both operation Olympic and Cornet. Casualties were heavy but performance was impressive as the volunteers believed that if they proved their worth they would be granted American citizenship after the war. As the foreign volunteers fought in the meat grinder of the Kanto Plain and street fighting at Yokahama a legend was being born.

This was help by the propaganda campaign that had been used to justify the recruitment of Axis prisoners to the American public was much more successful than anyone could have hoped. Stories of German and Italian soldiers dying to redeem the honor of their home land or prove their worth as potential Americans seemed to strike a cord with the American People.

That very idea would be used by American political leaders who seized on the worsening relations with the USSR to tap new sources of foreign manpower. As Casualties among the Germans and Italians topped 60 % recruitment of Polish, Hungarian, Croatian, and Anti Soviet Russians who had fought with the Germans began; the last group being officially called East European volunteers. They were joined by a smaller number of additional German and Italian volunteers from POW camps and even a few men from the occupation zones in Europe.

By the time the fighting in Japan died down in 1948 the foreign volunteers had suffered more than 70%. However they had proved their worth to their new masters. The U.S. congress formalized the creation of the American Foreign Volunteer Corps effective on 1 January 1949. The existing national unit structures that were already badly depleted were disbanded and replaced with multinational units. Volunteers who served 10 years in Corps would become American citizens, with time spent in combat counting double. Like its French counterpart the AFVC was not allowed to be stationed in the American mainland.

The new formed AFVC, dubbed the American Foreign Legion by the press, consisted of 3 Infantry Regts. 1 Mountain Regt. 1 Mech. Regt. 1 Armored Regt. and 1 Airborne Regt. . The AFVC was subordinated to the Army something as a sop to make up for the loss clout with the creation of the USAF. Enlistment requirements were to be set my the new secretary of defense.

AFVC spent the next few years hunting down die hard partisans in the mountains of Japan and earned a reputation for toughness and tenacity. The recent influx of a large number of Fillapino recruits who were eager for revenge contributed to another reputation, one of ruthlessness and brutality.

Calls to disband the AFVC were silenced by the outbreak of the Korean war where the Foreign Volunteers, by now including a sizable number of Japanese ex-pows, proved their worth by dying for their adopted country.
 
Most armies and navies most of the time are more than will to enlist "non-citizens" into their forces. During wartime recruits are welcome, during peacetime when armies become more of a civil service job and requirements are tightened up. The French Foreign Legion is a unique creation but nearly all of other "foreign legions" are limited by ethnic and national identity, like the Gurkha regiments.
 
Well I'm British so that doesn't really work, but even so America has been dominated by Anti-Imperial powers by the nature of its creation (Expantionist powers however are a different story)

I am sorry but I find the term "imperialistic" or "anti-imperialistic" to be a little vague. Imperialism and other negative terms have been applied mainly to European and European derived groups. However the Chinese Communists under Mao saw themselves as against imperialism but through their actions conquered Manchuria, Tibet, attempted to take control of the Korean peninsula and invaded Vietnam. Hardly the pacific behavior of "anti-imperialists".
 
So lets proceed from the assumption that the german volunteer corps was formed and used.


As the Summer of 1945 progresses formation of the German Volunteer Corps / Deutches Friwilligen Korps continues apace with 3 Infantry Division, 1 Mech. Infantry Division along with 1 Panzer Regt. 1 Mountain Regt. and 1 Airborne Regt. latter being joined by 1 combined air wing of volunteer luftwaffe flyers.

The French Foreign Legion in the 10-15 after WWII was mainly German. If the American Foreign Legion recruits from the same source then the French position in Indo-China will collapse even earlier.
 
I am sorry but I find the term "imperialistic" or "anti-imperialistic" to be a little vague. Imperialism and other negative terms have been applied mainly to European and European derived groups. However the Chinese Communists under Mao saw themselves as against imperialism but through their actions conquered Manchuria, Tibet, attempted to take control of the Korean peninsula and invaded Vietnam. Hardly the pacific behavior of "anti-imperialists".

They maybe expantionist but America wouldn't want for PR reasons not to create a organisation with such Imperialistic connotations.
 
hmmm, I've felt that the US Army has in certain respects always been a de facto foreign legion for new immigrants- as evidenced by the Irish Brigade & German-speaking regts of XI Corps in the ACW, or the massive proportion of the AEF who were European immigrants in 1917/18 (several anecdotes being with the 77th TIMES SQUARE Div some of whose regts had so many native Italian speakers who didn't actually speak English, that the Germans opposing em thought they were facing Italian troops who'd been shipped over to the Western Front; or the 32nd RED ARROW Div from the Mich/Wis NG, who had a large proportion of German-born members).

Heck, I like your ideas for a post-1945 US Foreign Legion-style outfit, esp for Op DOWNFALL & Korea- I think you should also take into account as another source of foreign recruits all the eastern European refugees who fled Communism in the immediate post-WWII period & who OTL joined the US armed forces to offer themselves in Vietnam under the Lodge Act- guys like Larry Thorne who was originally Lauri Torrni from Finland. Hmmm, maybe such refugees who OTL went to other Western countries (such as Hungarian Alex Fazekas, who fled to Australia after 1956, joined the Australian Army & was a member of the AATV in Nam) could've instead also ended up in the US Foreign Legion ?

But then, 1 poss stigma is that this US Foreign Legion gets branded as a poss safe haven for Nazi war criminals, just as OTL the Foreign Legion was for the excesses committed in Indochina & Algeria by ex-WAFFEN SS or WEHRMACHT personnel...
 
Originally Posted by Toryanna68
With a 1945 POD, have one created along the French model.

Should such legion be a formal and ufficial unit of USA' army?
Because I can definitly imagine the CIA raising a small military force made up of high deniability foreigners to use in some "low profile" missions.
 
I believe that as a foreigner you can enlist in your
marinecorps because when I was younger i lived in
New York for a while and I talked to a recruitment
officer and that I was Swedish was not a problem
on the contrary, but in the end I backed down
because I felt that 5 years was a long time. I regret it
know ofcourse.
 
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