Challenge: Turkey in the EU

Valdemar II

Banned
Greece spent most of its modern history as a virulent and genocidal ethnic national state, endured endless coups and civil wars, and was admitted just a few years after the fall of a brutal military dictatorship. This is not the best example to be giving. Despite being actually in the EU, it is more corrupt than Turkey and has a shakier economy.

Yes there's also that fact, of course that may not be the best argument for Turkish membership, that all it EU neighbours sucks, it could lead to the question will Turkey be better? Greece has been a nightmare for EU, which is also why many state dislike take more state in in the neighborhood, and I can promis you if there had been a referendrum for Romanian and Bulgarian membership, they wouldn't have been members. Only internal EU politics with France as a sponsor for Romania saved them. Turkey used to have Germany as a lurkwarm sponsor, but have under Erdodan succeded in alienate them (even if Gül still has sopme popularity), and Turkey only important sponsor today is UK, which has done its best to alienate the rest of EU with the Iraq warm and before that with the Tories charming behaviour.
 
Rural areas aren't money drains, because they are food-surplus producing and so nobody is starving or otherwise requiring large handouts. It's urban poor that are a problem, and Turkey is not especially urbanized.

Do you relize that we are talking abour EU? The European Union? The guys that pay about half their budget to farmers to fill in forms, growing stuff, not growing stuff and most importantly, not dump their manure on EUs nice, new headquaters. Yeah, they have two and move between them.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Do you relize that we are talking abour EU? The European Union? The guys that pay about half their budget to farmers to fill in forms, growing stuff, not growing stuff and most importantly, not dump their manure on EUs nice, new headquaters. Yeah, they have two and move between them.

Yes I forgot to answer that.
 
I think this is too much of a radical change. Britian in the 50's and 60's was very much still tied to the empire and commonwealth with many british people seeing ties with the commonwealth being the most important for the future.

I don't think you can make this argument very well to keep Britain out of the EEC, as it doesn't take any change on Britain's part to be in rather than out- the application was made, after all, and vetoed by De Gaulle, what is needed is someone else in power in France.

It was suggested in my thread The UK's 1960 application to rhe EEC is not vetoed [sic] that the application was made as a diplomatic gambit without the intent to join. If this was the case then I would be wrong, but it would be... an interesting manoeuvre. And of course if you have someone different in power in both countries, it becomes even easier.
 
That's hard to do after the Turkish intervention, but if you move the dates back a bit, if Britain had fulfilled its treaty obligation to maintain the independence of Cyprus instead of greenlighting an illegal annexation by Greece, they Turks wouldn't have had to intervene, which it had the legal right to do, BTW, which everyone always seems to overlook.

Oh come on, after Makarios was restored it became a naked land grab.
 
mildly off topic comment about Turkey's European-ness.

Some years ago I met some Iranian refugees. The wife said she was Turkish. I'm thinking 'OK, how did a Turk meet and marry an Iranian?', so asked for details (being a 'satiable Elephant's child). Well, it turned out that she was not 'European Turkish' (by which she meant from the country of Turkey), but Azeri. I even queried the label 'European' at the time, but she held firmly to it.

So, obviously some people further into Asia consider Turkey to be European, even if their status is borderline.
 
Yes, Malta is in Europe. Everyone knows that. :D

You do know some think that Europe and Asia should really be designated has one continent. If they did that then there would be no reason to fight over who is in Europe or Asia.

EURASIA.jpg

:D

Has for Cyprus, it seems it is better to be divided into two nations then fighting each other. There are islands which are divided into nations. Like the island of Hispaniola.

map_hispaniola.gif

And how about the very small Caribbean island of St. Martin/Sint Maarten.
Divided between the French and Netherlands.

St%20Maarten%20Map.gif


As for Turkey getting into the EU. it seems it has to do more with the cultural differences plus the Kurdish problem. In Spain, the Basque have there own autonomous province. Unless the Kurdish in Turkey have the same then the EU might not approve letting them into the EU.

Problem is in the 81 provinces in Turkey the Governors are appointed not elected. Even in the districts which make up the provinces it seems many are appointed. Only at the municipality level are there elections.

A district may cover both rural and urban areas. One district of a province is the "central district" (merkez ilçe); the central district is administered by an appointed "vice-governor" and other districts by a "sub-governor" (kaymakam). Each municipality (belediye) in the urban zone (belde) of a district is an administrative division subject to elections depending on the province.

Each district (including the central district) corresponds to a specific area within the province. The area is administered from the "district center" (ilçe merkezi, not to be confused with "central district" merkez ilçe), where resides the appointed kaymakam, the head official for that district, who is responsible to the province governor. Central districts do not have kaymakams, they are administered by a vice-governor.
This system seems kind of leftover from other times. It could still be an efficient system or it may not. Must ask the people who live there.
 
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As for Turkey getting into the EU. it seems it has to do more with the cultural differences plus the Kurdish problem. In Spain, the Basque have there own autonomous province. Unless the Kurdish in Turkey have the same then the EU might not approve letting them into the EU.

Britain had far worse problems in Northern Ireland when it was let in.
 
I guess for turkey to become member at this point, a good starting point is to prevent countries like Romania, Bulgaria and Poland from entering.
 

Keenir

Banned
Has for Cyprus, it seems it is better to be divided into two nations then fighting each other. There are islands which are divided into nations. Like the island of Hispaniola.

And how about the very small Caribbean island of St. Martin/Sint Maarten.
Divided between the French and Netherlands.

these places have had more than a century to settle their tensions.


As for Turkey getting into the EU. it seems it has to do more with the cultural differences

cultural differences? like what? like having civil marriages? like having monogamy? like having paper money?

oh wait, those are all traits of Turkey.
 

Keenir

Banned
Plus I rather want Constantinople back. If I were EU President, the deal would be restore Hagia Sophia, and you're in.

that option was considered...and rather than favor either side, it was decided to make it into a museum, so that everyone could use it.



I'm sure that given a good deal of TLC, coastal Turkey could become a popular "retirement home" for the collective population of Europe.

I think it already is. (or at least is the vacation retirement home)
 
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