Challenge: The USA Starts WWI

They were barely able to hold them back OTL and now you have given the Germans and Austrians effectively millions of troops.

This is true. Although, it Italy fights in this war like it did in the First World War of our timeline, it will merely be a speedbump for the Hungarians and Austrians on the way to France.
 
Actually they did OK in WWI. They weren't great by any means but they weren't the jokes they were in WWII. The Ottomens would certainly move some troops away from the Western Front.
 
Alternative...

The USN trades fire with the Germans near the Philippines during the War of 1898, prompting Germany to declare war on the U.S., after cutting a deal with Spain. Three powers are then at war. Perhaps, France and/or Britain declare for the United States, and soon a world war is underway. With the Great Game underway, the Russians are persuaded that the British are distracted, so they join the war citing the Three Emperors' Pact. Austria-Hungary gets in then too.

Germany, Spain, Russia, Austria-Hungary vs. United States, British Empire, France.


If you want a Great War in the 1910's with the US involved in the start of it, this can be a starting point that later leades to the US involvement from day one.

Off of Manilla: Dewey's forces fight (and IMHO, defeat) the German navy. War is declared on both sides. Germany and Spain are now co-beligerants....not something calculated to give France warm fuzzy feelings.

USN: 5 Battleships, with 5 more launched and fitting out, due within 2-3 years AT PEACETIME FITTING OUT RATES, and 3 more authorized, so materials probably allready being assembled. The forst 4 are ocean capable, but not great for deep sea fighting.

5 Monitors--big gun ships, useful only for coast defence...but still useful for that.

Germany has 9 relatively modern battleships, with no ore on the ways, plus a pile of small coast defence ships.

However, neither side could effectively project power due to lack of bases. As the nations of Europe start making noises about taking sides, with Britain's sympathies with the USA (to contain Germany) the chances for a war on a grander scale start looking very real. A few cruiser actoins in the Atlantic, and some commerce raiding, comprise the majority of the war before peace is negotiated.

But now, the USA is well aware of how expensive not having a good cruiser fleet to back up the battle line is, and American yards do build som scout/raiding cruisers. And...with Germany hostils, the USN is seen as more important than when there were no great power enemies. USS Michigan and HMS Dreadnought hit the water at about the same time, but Dreadnought is still completed faster.

Invincible and Von der Tann are matched by USS Newcastle, a battlecruiser that's slower than the Brisith version, but better protected, and built, like the British ships, for long range sailing.

While understanding the American naval build-up, it's still alarming to the Brisish, since ships aimed at Germany can just as easily be aimed at them. To ease British concerns, the USA promulgates a policy that "The United States Navy will match the German Navy on a ship for ship basis in capital ships."

This states clearly to the British that the concern is Germany...but that's still a LOT of warships. Japan, of course, is concerned because the Americans are stationing some heavy firepower (mainly older battleships, but with one or two battlecruisers) at Manilla...sufficent to deter any adventures by the German Far East Squadron, and to catch them if need be.

By mid 1914, the USA has the world's number two navy, and continuing harsh feelings towards Germany. Britian is worried about both the US and German build-ups, (but more worried about Germany's, as a dominant power in Europe is a terrible idea) and Japan is worried about the American intentions...and knows that taking American territory away is not really an option.

Now, there could be an incident in the Far East between German and American forces, a trade dispute, a clash between Japanese and American or German forces, a ship blowing herself apart in anotehr nation's harbor, or more.

Assuming that the US is involved from the start, it could get even uglier. Both Japan and the USA rush to seize German islands..and the American and Japanes fleets start shooting at each other over a choice piece of real estate.

Lots of different possibilities here...
 
But lets not forget that in this Spanish-American War gets out of hand, the United States has mobilized for war. With the British and American navies both operating on a war footing, I think that the Americans would be able to divert troops to Europe to help the French. With America's massive population potential being fed into the Western Front meatgrinder even if the French lose Paris in the first rush, they probably don't go down immediately. The Spaniards aren't going to really be a threat on the southern front, since the Pyrennes form a rather good natural boundary, and the combined Allied Navies could really land troops at will in Spain.

I don't see the Japanese getting involved with a war with the Americans. They may have been opportunists when it came to German islands, but at this point your not talking about 1930's unhinged self-confident (arrogant) militarist Japan, this is industrializing, slavishly copying the West, allied to the UK Japan. If the Russians are getting into it on the Central-Powers side, then maybe the Japanese and the Russians are getting into it in China. In this case, then you may see American troops also involved in the war in China against the Russians, as a check against the Japanese seizing portions of the country to "defend them from the Russians."

If the Russians are with the Central Powers, then the British and French will also be pushing the Ottoman Empire to open up another front against the Central Powers. The OE would be assured of resupply and advisers, maybe the French and British offer to get rid of some unfair trade concessions and recognize Turkish claims in their disagreements in the Balkans.

If Russia is allied to the Central Powers in this war, then this World War is going to be much more of a World War. The Russian frontier stretches from the OE, to the Indian-Central Asia theater, and then East into China, where the British and Japanese and maybe Americans are getting into the act. Russia would have to be out of its mind to fight this kind of combination, but stranger things have happened and it isnt ASB IMO.

On the Russia involvement thing, 1905 hasn't happened yet, but its right around the corner. With this kind of heavy involvement in what appears to be an even more draining conflict for the Russian Empire, I think that we would see a 1918 style revolution happen, with the Americans shipping some Russian anarchists East or maybe London coughing up some exiles from somewhere. I don't know where Lenin and Co., were at this time, but any TL that makes Trotsky the main guy in the Russian Revolution of an alternate WWI has my blessing and attention.
 

ninebucks

Banned
The USN trades fire with the Germans near the Philippines during the War of 1898, prompting Germany to declare war on the U.S., after cutting a deal with Spain. Three powers are then at war. Perhaps, France and/or Britain declare for the United States, and soon a world war is underway. With the Great Game underway, the Russians are persuaded that the British are distracted, so they join the war citing the Three Emperors' Pact. Austria-Hungary gets in then too.

Germany, Spain, Russia, Austria-Hungary vs. United States, British Empire, France.

What do you think of my scenario?

I like it. It big Eurasian land war, and the USA is clearly to blame :p.

I think it'd become interesting as we get to the War's endgame: will America seek an independent peace once they achieve their goals in the Pacific, leaving Britain, France, &co. to fight on their own? Or will the USA continue fighting along her allies, perhaps not sparing her from the economic ruinition that allowed her to acheive superpower status in the C20th??
 
I like it. It big Eurasian land war, and the USA is clearly to blame :p.

I think it'd become interesting as we get to the War's endgame: will America seek an independent peace once they achieve their goals in the Pacific, leaving Britain, France, &co. to fight on their own? Or will the USA continue fighting along her allies, perhaps not sparing her from the economic ruinition that allowed her to acheive superpower status in the C20th??

Whether they like it or not, the Americans may be in this war as long as are the British. If the Americans depart early, then the may well be next for a beatdown.
 
If Germany and the US go war over Spanish possessions in 1898, how does the alliance system get triggered?

This is at the same time as Fashoda, so maybe the UK reaches out to the US and we have the Anglo-American Alliance against the world? The Japanese would be involved in this certainly, since I think the Anglo-Japanese Alliance was already in effect.

This would basically be how much land can the UK seize in Africa before it gets tired, will the Franco-Austro-Spanish combination be enough to overwhelm British naval force in the Med, how badly will Russia lose, (maybe if this war drags on, or if it stops for a breather, we can get T.E. Lawrence interested in the Turkic peoples of Central Asia, and help the Turkic Rebellion, which forms the massive and pro-British Sultanate of Turkestan, ie Russian Central Asia and Sinkiang, which borders on Japanese Siberia (Sibeko?) and Allied-supported Ming China), how bloody will the revolution get when the Russians lose, when does France wake up and realize shes on the same side as Germany, and when does the whole world realize they're being minded controlled by ASBs?
 
1863
French forces cross the Arizonia border and capture Juanito Diaz, and his Cabinet.
Lincoln Complains but involved in the ACW can't do much

1865
ACW ends, Lincoln's attention turns to Mexico, but before he can do anything He is Assisinated.
President Johnson has his own Problems.

1868
With Diaz, and the main leaders gone, Maximillian has pacified most of south and Mid Mexico.
There are some hold outs in the north.

1870
France starts removing most of it's troops, except for a few Training Officers and Military Advisors.

1884
Mexico and France sign mutual defense treaty. France stations some troops in Mexico


1892
US Nicaragra Canal opens. US troops stationed in Nicaragra.

1908
Mexican Civil War starts in the North.

1911
Imperial Forces have regained control except in the North along the US border.

1912
Mexican Rebel Forces Raid across the US border looking for Arms, Ammo, and other Supplies.
US Forces Under General Pershing cross border looking for Raiders.
Mexican/French Forces intercept Pershing, Fighting starts.
Mexico DoWs US, France DoWs US, US DoWs Mexico, France.
Mexican/French Forces move into Nicaragra.
During the Fighting, French Artillery sinks a German Battleship Transitting the Canal.
Germany DoWs France, Russia DoWs Germany- US, AH DoWs Russia. Germany invades Belgium,
Great Britian DoWs Germany. Declares neutrallity in Mexican War.

1913
Italy DoWs France, Ottomans DoWs the Central Powers,
Japan DoWs Central Powers, Declares neutrality in US -Mexican, French, Russian Theatre.

GW1 is under way
 
If Maximilian had any real success in Mexico, the Americans would have no problem going down there and kicking his teeth in. I think that the Americans would (correctly) view Maximilian's presence in Mexico as a direct affront to American power, and a totally opportunistic move by Napoleon III. Once Johnson loses and Grant gets into power I see him making sure that the Mexican Republicans have arms, ammunition, training, and perhaps advisers to go into Mexico and destroy Max's regime.

I don't think that the overthrow of Max's regime would all that hard to do either. He is a foreign monarch being backed by the most reactionary elements of the society, and the only way that he could do what he is doing in this TL is by fully and completely embracing the reactionaries. This embrace would end any (slim) chance that he had at getting the population on his side, and make sure that the threat of native rebellion (independent of the American-backed rebels in the North) is constant.

So Max makes some gains during the Civil War and immediately after. Once Grant is in office the American Army takes all those arms and ammunition that it no longer needs (Civil War is over, the Indian Wars was a matter of building railroads, killing buffalo, giving out blankets, the odd massacre and waiting) and gives them to the Mexicans. In 1871 the French Empire collapses from Bonaparte fatigue, military defeat, and social unrest, and Max's only foreign backed is gone. By 1873 (at latest) Max's regime has been torn down by the American-supported Republicans and Max is either executed or in exile.

Now this could produce something where the Americans are more involved in internal Mexican affairs, but I don't see that as in the cards. The United States had more than enough on its plate internally, and had its resource corporations (United Fruit, Mining) conduct Latin American foreign policy. If Mexico decides to get in the way of resource extraction, then there might be a problem, but other than that I think that Europe generally recognized (Nappy III and Max being the exception) that Latin America was the American's back yard and we called the shots. You could invest money, but no troops. That's what the US Marines are for.
 
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