Challenge: The Icelandic Armed Forces and Air Force

[Petike]

With a POD no earlier than the 1920s, try to ensure the creation of small, but official armed forces on Iceland. A defence force not that much bigger from the current one, but with a greater military capability, instead of just being a heavy-duty law enforcement supplement.

Things I'd like to see :

A few infantry brigades. No need for fancy weaponry, they can use the OTL German/Austrian/Canadian/US mix of firearms. A nice camo pattern for the subarctic conditions of the island would be nice too.

One or two small mechanized brigades, with one of them equipped with lightly armed APCs and basic towed artillery in addition to cars and trucks. No tanks or IFVs though (or maybe a few small IFVs replacing older APCs during the 1990s-2000s).

A small air force, including a naval air wing subordinate to the Coast Guard. Mostly made up of transport prop-planes and various naval helicopters (for search and rescue, transport, disaster relief and some basic air-to-ground support). The biggest difference from OTL would be the presence of actual trainer and fighter aircraft. Again, nothing fancy or too sophisticated, mostly prop-planes of various European/American manufacture (most probably Cessna or Pilatus). Later on, they could purchase a few cheaper trainer/light attack jets or even a few (10 max) older fighters (maybe Phantoms or Drakens, dunno).

Butterflies need not apply too much. You can keep the tech and geopolitics evolving exactly as in OTL, I won't mind. Just build up a realistic and feasible little army on Iceland, that's all. Give the Icelanders more of a peacekeeping presence in the world, along with other Scandinavian countries. Also, make them obviously more open to accepting a full-time proper defence force than in OTL.

 

[KillerT]

Brigades??????

Wow...

Far more achievable would be small units of around 175-250 personnel -akin in size to an engineer sqdn in UK army or RAF Regt field squadron. So you could see maybe three such units each with a HQ, Admin and echelon platoon, a recce/patrols platoon, direct fire support platoon (MG/AT), indirect fire support platoon (mortars), 3 rifle platoons (1 perhaps trained as assault pioneers)-each platoon with by the 1980s 1 Milan, light tank platoon (say 8 FV101 Scorpion). In addition to your 3 field units maybe an amphibious unit with some lorry mounted SSM's an air defence unit, engineer unit and maybe a quick recation force, plus of course training resources. Your 'Air Force' would not be much beyond a handful of helicopters and basic trainers and maybe some cheap patrol aircraft-no way could Iceland afford Phantoms or F16s!

 

[Mad Missouri]

I agree a few brigades seems too large for Iceland to man/equip/train. I was thinking a reinforced battalion is about as larger as a can see.

A small HQ/Support company, 3 small infantry companies, a weapons company (.50 cal and 40mm MGs and 81mm mortars). Maybe a light armored company based around a wheel vehicle of some sort and a small artillery battery of 105mm guns.

Iceland would have been a good nation to sell F5s too. Would the F5 work in that type of climate?

 

[Peace_Monger]

The best Iceland could to do is perhaps and try pull a Brunei; with a single functional light infantry brigade, along with a minor air force and navy. Overall though its rather redundant for a nation like Iceland to have military during the Cold War because even if they conscripted have their available male population (around 80,000) they would only have a 40,000 personal to defend against like Russian invasion of over 80,000 in the opening moments of the war. This wouldn't even taken into account the amount of resistance from the locals to developing a military force in Iceland. With that said:

Units of Iceland Army, Field Formations
-1 light infantry regiment (2 light infantry battalions &1 mechanized infantry battalion: 4 rifle companies and 1 headquarters &support company per battalion [anti-tank weaponry, pioneers, mortars, reconnaissance, medical ext...])
-1 artillery (combined) regiments (2 standard artillery batteries, 1 tactical anti-air battery, 1 special observation battery, and 1 headquarters &support battery)
-1 combat engineer regiments (2 combat engineer squadrons, 1 field engineer support squadron, and 1 headquarters &supports squadron)

Units of Iceland Army, Theatre Formations
-1 field signals regiments (2 field signals squadrons, 1 electronic warfare squadron, and 1 headquarters &support squadron)
-1 support &logistical regiments (2 logistical battalions, 1 medical support battalion, and 1 headquarters &support battalion)

Iceland Army Air Corps
-8 utility/tactical combat transport helicopter (NHI NH90 TTH)[or 1980's equivalent]
-8 light transport/helicopter trainer aircraft (AgustaWestland AW109 LUH)[or 1980's equivalent]

And this could only be done with massive local support, along with a widespread reservists employment to fill all of these active roles. Perhaps no more than 35% of these positions could be filled during peacetime by a professional cadre, unless Iceland wanted to bankrupt itself in a single fiscal year. Although you could reduce the combat assets (infantry, artillery, & engineers; I personal think it would be redundant because the whole purpose of this force is to deter a Russian invasion during a hot war.)

 

[Petike]

I agree a few brigades seems too large for Iceland to man/equip/train. I was thinking a reinforced battalion is about as larger as a can see.

A small HQ/Support company, 3 small infantry companies, a weapons company (.50 cal and 40mm MGs and 81mm mortars). Maybe a light armored company based around a wheel vehicle of some sort and a small artillery battery of 105mm guns.

Iceland would have been a good nation to sell F5s too. Would the F5 work in that type of climate?

Yeah, I actually meant companies or battalions, I'm not too good with army unit hierarchies.

Oh, and yes, F-5s could actually work very well. The Swiss are a good example of a small nation that puts them to good use, even though they're aging tech.

snip

Very good order of battle you have there. I approve. Though I never said its a primarily anti-Russian force.

Since you're a new member, welcome to the board !

 

[KillerT]

OK here's my full rundown:

Amphibious Squadron- HQ&admin troop, Radar surveillance troop, 2 inshore patrols troop (use rigid raider craft and heavy raider boats akin to the CB90 concept), missile troop (4 lorry mounted launcher systems for Exocet or RBS15), combat swimmer troop (trained by SBS/SEALS). (around 215 with 50/50 split national service/reserves)

3(+)x Field Defence Groups- Light tank platoon (8 FV101 with new 90mm gun), mortar platoon (4 L16 manpack mortars and 2 Naufoss 120mm mortars), CS platoon (mix 50 cal and AGLs), 3 rifle/pioneer platoons (1 regular rest reserves), HQ and ecehelon platoon, small LAD. Each unit around 250 or so.

HQ Group-signals platoon, transport platoon, depots, LAD, medical det etc (around 450)

Training Group-probably similar in scope to a Field unit

Air Defence Group- several radar stations and perhaps a half dozen SAM systems
Air Corps- 2 F27 /HS748 Coastguarder patrol aircraft, 8 Westland Sea King (multi role rescue/transport/patrol), 4 Hughes 500 (training, patrol), 6 basic trainers, and no F5's as they can't afford em!

'Navy'- perhaps 2-3 Hyverbojjens sort or perhaps 3 OPV's with a gun and maybe at a push RBS15.

 

[jlckansas]

You would also add a maritime patrol/fisheries enforcement/Air Sea rescue squardron of aircraft. It would have 8 to 12 planes with maybe 6 to 8 P3's some smaller aircraft and maybe 2 or 3 C130's that could drop Air Sea rescue equipment like the USCG C130's.

 

[Deleted member 6086]

Overall though its rather redundant for a nation like Iceland to have military during the Cold War because even if they conscripted have their available male population (around 80,000) they would only have a 40,000 personal to defend against like Russian invasion of over 80,000 in the opening moments of the war.

Defenders always have tactical advantage, especially during amphibious assaults. So a totally mobilised Iceland could probably hold it off until some kind of support comes.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Remember guys, that Iceland has the population of a medium sized city. 250-300 thousands. Every person you put in a uniform is not fishing, running hydroprojects, whatever.

This is a TINY country. They're lucky they can field fisheries patrol boats.

If you wanted to do a direct parallel to Switerland with some 25x the population, Switerland bought 110 F5s (according to Wiki). Thus Iceland, proportionally would have 4 or 5. I really don't see what good 3 functional aircraft would do (assuming 1 or 2 down for repair/maintenance, etc. at any given moment). The maintenance of them would be hugely expensive, too, as you'd either have to fly them to another country for servicing, or maintain a whole dedicated supply chain for like 4 planes. Ouch.

 

[Gunnarnz]

You would also add a maritime patrol/fisheries enforcement/Air Sea rescue squardron of aircraft. It would have 8 to 12 planes with maybe 6 to 8 P3's some smaller aircraft and maybe 2 or 3 C130's that could drop Air Sea rescue equipment like the USCG C130's.

That's as many as New Zealand has, a country with 4.5 million people. I think we need to set our sights a little lower. I'd suggest perhaps 2-3 F-27s as maritime patrol craft, a similar number of twin Beech (or equivalent) and half a dozen UH-1 or something like that. They don't need more, they can't crew more, and they certainly can't afford more.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Don't they depend heavily on the US and NATO for defence? I think you would need a change in history or circumstances for them to have anything beyond their police forces at the moment.

 

[MattII]

Personally I'd say just the helicopters, if they need the maritime patrol stuff just borrow a couple of aircraft off Icelandair (they operate F-27s, or used to anyway), or Britain. Ground forces would get Light Utility Vehicles and Unimogs only.

 

[Uruk]

IMHO the best POD would be that the Herfylkingin is never disbanded and that it became backed by a homeguard trained and equipped by the UK/US after their occupation in 1940. Not a very exciting ORBAT consisting of one light mechanized battalion and X number of local defence companies, an air force consting of 6 Super Tucano or Pilatus PC-9M, 4 NH-90 TTH and 2 C-130. Rounding of the armed forces is the OTL coastguard.

 

[Petike]

IMHO the best POD would be that the Herfylkingin is never disbanded and that it became backed by a homeguard trained and equipped by the UK/US after their occupation in 1940. Not a very exciting ORBAT consisting of one light mechanized battalion and X number of local defence companies, an air force consting of 6 Super Tucano or Pilatus PC-9M, 4 NH-90 TTH and 2 C-130. Rounding of the armed forces is the OTL coastguard.

This could work, but I'd replace the Hercules with something smaller, cheaper and European. Besides, the coast guard already has some bigger transport planes.

 

[Gunnarnz]

This could work, but I'd replace the Hercules with something smaller, cheaper and European.

Something like the Hawker Siddeley Andover seems appropriate as a Hercules replacement.

 

[Uruk]

This could work, but I'd replace the Hercules with something smaller, cheaper and European. Besides, the coast guard already has some bigger transport planes.

Good point, so 2 CASA C-295 instead of the C-130 and Super Pumas instead of the NH-90 to get commonality with the coast guard

 

[Delta Force]

Remember guys, that Iceland has the population of a medium sized city. 250-300 thousands. Every person you put in a uniform is not fishing, running hydroprojects, whatever.

This is a TINY country. They're lucky they can field fisheries patrol boats.

If you wanted to do a direct parallel to Switerland with some 25x the population, Switerland bought 110 F5s (according to Wiki). Thus Iceland, proportionally would have 4 or 5. I really don't see what good 3 functional aircraft would do (assuming 1 or 2 down for repair/maintenance, etc. at any given moment). The maintenance of them would be hugely expensive, too, as you'd either have to fly them to another country for servicing, or maintain a whole dedicated supply chain for like 4 planes. Ouch.

They could probably operate a few F-15s out of the Naval Air Station on the island, for commonality with the USAF forces that rotate through the island. That would make logistics more simple.

That said, the best option would probably be to have no military at all. Iceland is a small island heavily reliant on imports, so in the event of invasion it would probably be best to avoid having a military in order to prevent having a massive amount of their population killed off. If they went to World War I levels of mobilization and had 10% of their population in arms (a level that is unsustainable for even a large industrial power) they would have a good sized military, but a massive proportion of Iceland's population would be represented by each individual soldier. Iceland losing 100 people in a day of combat would have the same relative effect as the United States losing 100,000. Iceland would be volunteering for national tragedy by fielding any military opposition.

 

[Fabilius]

You need a pod that makes Iceland richer. It might be able to afford this in the 80s, but not in the 50s.

Unless, US pays for it of course. I guess that some lobbyists could see that make sense if Iceland bought everything from US producers.

 

[Uruk]

Iceland was relativly wealthy before "The Vikings"

 

[Petike]

You need a pod that makes Iceland richer. It might be able to afford this in the 80s, but not in the 50s.

Unless, US pays for it of course. I guess that some lobbyists could see that make sense if Iceland bought everything from US producers.

Yes, that's a meaningful explanation.

But I've already mentioned a few times that the Icelandic army isn't going to be built overnight. Brief idea of the army's evolution. Some support for its creation in the 50s, taking off a bit more in the 60s and 70s and modernizing into a more flexible and mobile force in the 80s and 90s.

That said, the best option would probably be to have no military at all. Iceland is a small island heavily reliant on imports, so in the event of invasion it would probably be best to avoid having a military in order to prevent having a massive amount of their population killed off. If they went to World War I levels of mobilization and had 10% of their population in arms (a level that is unsustainable for even a large industrial power) they would have a good sized military, but a massive proportion of Iceland's population would be represented by each individual soldier. Iceland losing 100 people in a day of combat would have the same relative effect as the United States losing 100,000. Iceland would be volunteering for national tragedy by fielding any military opposition.

Don't worry, I understand this all too well. But this thread is just a thought experiment and the military is supposed to be more of a peacekeeping and disaster relief force than an army capable of defending the island completely on its own. Alternatively, the POD could be Iceland becoming more economically prosperous and independent already in the second half of the 19th century. Less emigration from the island, a few thousand people more.

They could probably operate a few F-15s out of the Naval Air Station on the island, for commonality with the USAF forces that rotate through the island. That would make logistics more simple.

True, but I think the existence of Icelandic F-15s is a bit of an overkill, even if the US would be willing to take care of most of their maintenance and repairs. Commonality would make it easier, but if Iceland owned F-5s instead, the expenses would probably be lower overall. The F-15 is a good aircraft, but it's too big and sophisticated for Iceland, even with US help.

Besides, Slovenia and Ireland don't even have jet fighters and use Pilatus PC-9Ms as the closest replacement. Sure, they don't cover 100 % of all air policing duties, but they're capable nonetheless. As appealing as the idea of Icelandic F-5s, L-39s or Alpha Jets is, it's not an absolute necessity. Iceland could do fine with prop planes. It mostly needs helicopters, anyway.