Challenge: Soviet Russia in 19th century

Deleted member 97083

With the latest POD possible, how could one create a Soviet Russia in the 19th century (even if it's 1899)? Some prerequisites might be more extensive urbanization, earlier creation of a proletariat class separate from peasants, and of course, an earlier Russian Revolution.
 
Well, for one, what do you mean when you say "Soviet Russia" do you mean one ruled by the Bolshevik Party? Just a "communist" Russia in general? Or do you mean one ruled by an organization similar to the Soviets that were formed and part of the Dual Power system in Russia during 1917? If it's the first that's impossible as the Bolshevik Party wasn't formed till after 1899, unless we have a pod that creates an ATL form of the Bolsheviks before their formation in 1903. The same could also be said for the latter. I'm not versed enough on Russian history to know whether or not a system like the soviets was possible prior to the OTL Russian Revolution. A "Communist" Russia might be possible depending on the POD, but whether it'll count as Soviet or not is hard to determine without being given a proper definition of what you mean by "Soviet".
 

Deleted member 97083

Well, for one, what do you mean when you say "Soviet Russia" do you mean one ruled by the Bolshevik Party? Just a "communist" Russia in general? Or do you mean one ruled by an organization similar to the Soviets that were formed and part of the Dual Power system in Russia during 1917? If it's the first that's impossible as the Bolshevik Party wasn't formed till after 1899 and the same could be said for the latter. I'm not versed enough on Russian history to know whether or not a system like the soviets was possible prior to the OTL Russian Revolution. A "Communist" Russia might be possible depending on the POD, but whether it'll count as Soviet or not is hard to determine without being given a proper definition of what you mean by "Soviet".
Primarily, I mean a communist Russia, but additional convergences to the Soviets would be a bonus.
 
A POD which abolishes serfdom earlier then OTL, followed by an intensive effort at land reform which, in turn, spurs an industrialization of Russia alongside Western Europe, in contrast to the late and fumbled Russian industrialization of OTL.. Such a POD, however, could very well butterfly Marx and all of his works, so the Communism you get might manifest out of an analysis of Capitalism which is markedly different from that of Marx.

In any case, recreate the devastating World War which we saw in 1914 in the year 1895, and have the material conditions in Russia broken down such that a revolutionary left wing group, or collection of groups as we saw IOTL, has a window to take over the machines of the state.

Another issue is that the POD would precede the formation of Germany. How this affects European geopolitics, and whether or not this means that a Russian Empire which is industrialized will ever possibly get beat down like they did in OTL by whatever powers come out of your POD, I cannot say.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 97083

A POD which abolishes serfdom earlier then OTL, followed by an intensive effort at land reform which, in turn, spurs an industrialization of Russia alongside Western Europe, in contrast to the late and fumbled Russian industrialization of OTL.. Such a POD, however, could very well butterfly Marx and all of his works, so the Communism you get might manifest out of an analysis of Capitalism which is markedly different from that of Marx.

In any case, recreate the devastating World War which we saw in 1914 in the year 1895, and have the material conditions in Russia broken down such that a revolutionary left wing group, or collection of groups as we saw IOTL, has a window to take over the machines of the state.

Another issue is that the POD would precede the formation of Germany. How this affects European geopolitics, and whether or not this means that a Russian Empire which is industrialized will ever possibly get beat down like they did in OTL by whatever powers come out of your POD, I cannot say.
Could it happen without a World War? Perhaps an earlier Russo-Japanese War to correspond with the earlier Russian industrialization?
 
A POD which abolishes serfdom earlier then OTL, followed by an intensive effort at land reform which, in turn, spurs an industrialization of Russia alongside Western Europe, in contrast to the late and fumbled Russian industrialization of OTL.. Such a POD, however, could very well butterfly Marx and all of his works, so the Communism you get might manifest out of an analysis of Capitalism which is markedly different from that of Marx.

In any case, recreate the devastating World War which we saw in 1914 in the year 1895, and have the material conditions in Russia broken down such that a revolutionary left wing group, or collection of groups as we saw IOTL, has a window to take over the machines of the state.

Another issue is that the POD would precede the formation of Germany. How this affects European geopolitics, and whether or not this means that a Russian Empire which is industrialized will ever possibly get beat down like they did in OTL by whatever powers come out of your POD, I cannot say.
Maybe a more volitile state of affairs could also lead Germany down the path of communism?
 
Top