Challenge: Significant Moorish population in New World

The Iberian caste system was plenty complicated just with three races- European, Indian, and African. However, what if there was a fourth race- Arab/Berber, or Moorish? It seems like Black Ladino might be equivalent.

Carlton Bach's The Vivaldi Journeys had a different colonization of the New World (no unified Spain doing it), with knightly orders being a big deal. Some of them use Moorish auxiliaries in their ranks.

Could an alternate Reconquista ended up not having the Moriscos/Marranos forcibly converted to Catholicism, but instead exiled to the New World in large numbers? Or maybe they choose to willingly go there.
 

scholar

Banned
Granada was a vassal of Castille, and a lot weaker than it. And, if it could survive, they would not have the finances to sustain any type of colonization.
Castille would have the finances. Moors were mostly Muslim, and Castille could readily use them in the new world as slaves or indentured servants. Historically they were largely expelled into Morocco and Algeria, but here they can be put to "better" use by the Spaniards.
 
Why not have Granada be conquered by the Ottomans? There is a timeline that includes that scenario in this forums.
 
Castille would have the finances. Moors were mostly Muslim, and Castille could readily use them in the new world as slaves or indentured servants. Historically they were largely expelled into Morocco and Algeria, but here they can be put to "better" use by the Spaniards.

Then you will have to explain why they did`nt.
 

scholar

Banned
Why not have Granada be conquered by the Ottomans? There is a timeline that includes that scenario in this forums.
That wouldn't work, Granada was failing when the Ottomans were just starting to venture into middle east and the states bordering Hungary. They were in no shape to venture a conquest of Granada.

Then you will have to explain why they did`nt.
Because they were expelled and/or forced converted before any signficant movement to the new world took place.
 
I think maybe they could have been forced to the New World for whatever reason. Maybe not actual Muslim Moors, but Moriscos and Marranos perhaps. Say the Spanish Inquisition goes differently with its punishments, or maybe it isn't strong in the New World so many crypto-Muslims and crypto-Jews go there. And they don't even have to be crypto-anything, they could be Christian Arabs.

I'm mostly interested in the alternate sociology and culture. How would Moors (as a generic terms for Arabs/Berbers/Jews) fit in with the caste system?
 
I think maybe they could have been forced to the New World for whatever reason.
Considering that both white convicts and black slaves were shipped to the New World, it would be just a case of finding the ships and chains. As for employment, well with the Indians having the indecency of dying off to escape working in gold and silver mines, infidels will do nicely instead.

I'm mostly interested in the alternate sociology and culture. How would Moors (as a generic terms for Arabs/Berbers/Jews) fit in with the caste system?
Going on race and colour muslim brown Moors will be above pagan red Indians and pagan black Africans. Some of them will have the further advantage of being literate in civilised languages, which would increase their status. Of course they will have to get over the barbarian habit of praying five times day, or at least trying to do so during working hours.

Of course some of them could escape and take up with the Indians. You would thus see the start of a native Islamic population minus Korans and the opportunity to go on the Haj. I doubt though without a serious environmental advantage like Haiti such tribes could stand up to the Europeans any more than the natives or the few negro free states. Still, an Islamic state high in the Andes or jihadist Apaches would take a major war to break.
 
I think of instead of involving the actual North African countries (which apparently had no interest in the New World in OTL), the alternate Inquisition idea would be best. Instead of force-converting the Iberian Muslims and Jews, and instead of expelling the Moors back to North Africa where they could potentially be a future military threat, the Spanish exile them to the New World. So we get a fourth "starting race" besides white Europeans, red Indians, and black Africans to further complicate the caste system.

Of course some of them could escape and take up with the Indians. You would thus see the start of a native Islamic population minus Korans and the opportunity to go on the Haj. I doubt though without a serious environmental advantage like Haiti such tribes could stand up to the Europeans any more than the natives or the few negro free states. Still, an Islamic state high in the Andes or jihadist Apaches would take a major war to break.

Sounds like something out of Malê Rising. Or the excellent Vivaldi Journeys-

A particularly fascinating episode was the brief flowering of the sultanate of Tlacopan, where mudejar jinetaros deposed a local ruler and established a Muslim dynasty that would resist several attempts by the Montesans to destroy it between 1453 and 1467. The eventual surrrender of the last sultan, Tariq Abd ar-Rahman, was obtained by offering generous terms of toleration to all present Muslim converts, and the mosque continued to be used for almost half a century.
 
The Sucessor states to the Cordoban Caliphate were to my knowledge concerned with facing westward.

An interesting alternative would be if a stable Moorish Christian state in North Africa butterflies the fanatical Almohads and Almovoride. The Iberian relationship would be much more interesting.
 
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