Challenge: Selective Fire

In light of this thread, among others, I wanted to ask something that's bugged me for awhile. Borchardt made auto pistols in 1893. The Cei-Rigotti appeared in 1890. The Kjellman traces its origins to an 1870 patent. The Webley-Fosbery isn't terribly different from an 1850 Colt. So I wonder: what is the earliest a semi-auto or full-auto smallarm, relying entirely on internal power (gas or recoil, no Gatlings), could have been produced, & by whom? And if, as I understand it, smokeless powder &/or metallic cartridges were required, again, when & by whom? Also, any thoughts on the effects? I'm not too concerned with the POD, tho extra points if you can divert somebody from another field (I recall somebody attempting an IC engine fuelled by gunpowder:eek: who might do...if he lived.:p). Bonus points if you can make him Canadian.:p
 
The idea of a revolver gun was certainly around in the fifteenth century and realised with tolerable reliability in the sixteenth. Having a recoil-powered mechanism that turned the drum would not be beyond the capabilities of late Renaissance tinkerers, and a matchlock action doesn't require fulminate of anything to work.

Inconvenient as all get-out, and probably very unreliable, but possible.
 
Once you have a self contained metalic cartridge* then even with black powder it is possible to build a recoil operated semi or full automatic firearm. Of couse with BP it isn't going to operate for very long but a semi-auto side arm might be a viable calary weapon. After all just how many shots would really be taken. Lets say you could get two or three 10 shot magazines fired before the powder fouling made the weapon inoperable. Does anyone know if tests have been tried with say a Colt M1911 firing BP rounds?. Of course once you have firearms that use BP and show the fouling problems somebody is going to be hard at work trying to find a replacement propellant.

The earliest I know of is around 1810 but I can't find a reference.
 
My 2 cents on linkage between black powder and automatic weapons (or, more correctly, on BP preventing automatic weapons from being widely used due to speedy fouling). I found pretty reliable references that number of early Maxims were made for British and French armies in their "black powder" calibers, to use up available cartridge stock. Those were issued to paramilitary troops in colonies as late as WWI (by French at least). Apparently, those systems were fouling-tolerant enough to fire BP cartridges for some time. Also, if you think about it, Gatlings were known to fire thousands of cartridges in battles without stoppages due to fouling. Average Gatling has 6 to 10 barrels, and it means that single-barrel weapon have to be able to fire several hundreds to thousand BP rounds before fouling itself to death.

Taking it all into account, I would say that earliest autoloaders are possible once drawn brass cartridges (rolled brass ones are too brittle for auto action with sharp pull) are implemented. So, 1860s or so is the earliest date.
 
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