Challenge:Rommel commander of the NATO.

"In 1952 German Field-Marshal Erwin Rommel was appointed commander of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Europe.
In this picture take in SHAPE (Belgium) see Field-Marshal Rommel and the German flag".

how this can happen?


natorommel.jpg



 
Well in OTL his chief of staff became the first commander. Rommel was almost universally admired both in Germany and in the West save for some of the German General Staff. All you have to do is eliminate him being wounded by the British fighter bomber in 1944. You would also need for him to be able to prove he wasn't a conspirator in the July 20th plot (in reality he wasn't he knew it was happening and his staff were active participants but he himself was noncomittal) He would be relived for defeatism much the way Manstein and Runstead were and go home in all likelyhood before Normandy fell apart.

He didn't have any notable war crimes on his record and could very easily have been selected to be the first commander of nato. Basically the only POD you need is for him to live and for Hitler to leave him alone after August 1944
 

Germaniac

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I have seen that flag before, it was one of the possibilities after WW1 as a flag of the new German Republic.

What is the POD, hell it could be before Hitler took over. Lets see, A nationalist government takes over in Germany, starts to push around the neighbors to the east. EXTREMELY Anti Communist and The Western Allies agree to allow Germany to take Danzig and the Polish corridor in return for an Alliance against the Communist threat. After Stalin launches his war in the late 40's. Rommel, a visionary in the use of tanks, blasts a hole through the Russians and single handedly stops the first Russian Advance. He becomes a Field Marshal and a national hero.

The war continues and Stalin finally breaks the allied forces and pushes through Germany When the first Soviet forces reach the Rhine, the United States finnally declares was and sooner or later the Combined US-British-French-German-Italian alliance marches into Moscow as victors. Rommel a national hero of the Germans, the nation with the largest army active in the actual fighting, is rewarded with the position as the commander of the post war NATO alliance.
 
The flag was an actual proposal for the west German flag, I believe. I have also read it was a flag considered by the July 20 conspirators. Two ways this might happen, both unlikely:

(1) The July 20 plot succeeds and the new German Government essentially unconditionally surrenders to the Wallies. Wallies occupy Germany but are willing to deal with provisional Junta until Allied-supervised election are held. Hostilities between Wallies and USSR seem emminent so this new Germany is added to the western alliance structure as soon as possible. War starts in 1952 and Rommel, who would have been a very useful and respected figurehead for the "new" "New" Germany, as well as the occupying Wallies, gets the job as commander of NATO.

(2) July Plot goes ahead but fails. Somehow Rommel survives purges. War ends basically as in OTL with Germany divided between Wallies and USSR. Cold War starts as in OTL. West Germany is formed in 1949. Perhaps some Berlin Crisis flares into temporary hostlities and Wallies decide to fast track West German membership in NATO as a defensive measure. Rommel, who has been promoted as a "good" German by the Wallies since 1942 is give largely ceremonial role as commander in chief of NATO.

One problem with either scenario is Rommel himself. Although he had a number undeniable good traits, was an honorable military commander, and was at least somewhat supportive of the 1944 anti-Hitler coup attempt, he is not unstained. He was a very willing supporter (and member, I believe) of the Nazi Party in his earlier career, and was very sympathetic to the nationalistic goals of the Nazis which led to WW2 and millions of deaths. Like many military men he turned a blind eye to the Nazi's racial policies - and certainly felt that the Nazi's other "good" traits more than made up for their unfortunate habit of murdering millions of civilians in gas chambers. That is, until he felt the Nazis and Hitler were making bad military decisions. Had he not been forced to kill himself during the purges, it is entirely possible he may have been brought up on charges by the Nurnberg court. He oversaw the construction of the atlantic Wall by slave labor. He was a very willing participant in the Nazi's military and diplomatic policies to overturn Versailles, etc. Like many German generals in his position, he would probably have been acquitted (or given a very minor sentence), but there is very little likelihood that NATO would select someone just let off by a war crimes tribunal as its first commander.
 
The flag was an actual proposal for the west German flag, I believe. I have also read it was a flag considered by the July 20 conspirators.

A proposed flag for Germany that would have been used had the July 20 plot succeeded (1944)
disband the Nazi regime and seek peace with the Allies. Josef Wirmer, a co-conspirator in the July 20 Plot, had developed a new national flag to be used for this new post-Nazi state: a Nordic Cross Flag in black-red-gold

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_Resistance_Flag_Proposal_1944.svg

http://www.zazzle.com/german_resistance_flag_1944_postcard-239619370953297925
 
first he dosent die
Oh really? I never thought about that. Perhaps you're right, but then, I'm still not sure if that is necessary...

Sidenote: That proposed German flag makes my mind confused as to whether I want to say it's awesome or it makes my eyes bleed in agony. I might go with both, it is rather bizarre or unusual however.
 

Bearcat

Banned
Zoomar,

So was von Braun.

If Rommel has political value to the Allies, his earlier 'misjudgments' will be overlooked. So long as he has value.
 
Oh really? I never thought about that. Perhaps you're right, but then, I'm still not sure if that is necessary...

Nonsense. I can conjure up no image more awesome then a zombiefied Erwin Rommel leading NATO against the Warsaw Pact in an effort to bring back to life his zombified generals.
 

CalBear

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ASB?

NATO means something utterly different than our T/L?

The Alliance finds out that the nominal commander will have to be shot at sunrise the next day?

Seriously, even if Rommel had survived the war, which was far from a sure bet even without the July 20 plot, he would have, at best, been in the Dock for war crimes (forced labor, that he oversaw, knowing it was forced labor, built his Atlantic Wall) or would have been a guest of the Soviets until 1955 if not later.

If you review the list of Third Reich Field Marshalls you will see that virtually all of them were tried at the end of the war, except a few who were judged to sick to stand trial or died during the war.

Even if he was left out of prison and spared the luxury accommodations provided by the NKVD, there is no way that he would have been appointed to lead a Alliance that included ANY Western European or American forces.
 
ASB?

NATO means something utterly different than our T/L?

The Alliance finds out that the nominal commander will have to be shot at sunrise the next day?

Seriously, even if Rommel had survived the war, which was far from a sure bet even without the July 20 plot, he would have, at best, been in the Dock for war crimes (forced labor, that he oversaw, knowing it was forced labor, built his Atlantic Wall) or would have been a guest of the Soviets until 1955 if not later.

If you review the list of Third Reich Field Marshalls you will see that virtually all of them were tried at the end of the war, except a few who were judged to sick to stand trial or died during the war.

Even if he was left out of prison and spared the luxury accommodations provided by the NKVD, there is no way that he would have been appointed to lead a Alliance that included ANY Western European or American forces.

Rommel never fought against the Russians and his home was in Western Germany its safe to assume he would have been captured by the west if he lived. He was much younger than a lot of the field marshal's that were sent to Siberia and certainly in better shape to live through it. If Manstein who enforced the commisar order and blatently purgured himself at Nuremburg could become a special advisor to the Bundswer I don't see why Rommel couldn't stay in the military. The forced labor whilst it went on in his sector had very little to do with him since it was orchestrated by Speer and the folks in Berlin. He merely designed the defenses and the super baddies created the slave labor situation that built it. Rommel also refused a Hitler order to execute German nationals in the French foriegn legion that fought his men at Bir Hachim... he was by far one of the least evil of the German generals and yet one is most accomplished commanders.

If he lived and wasn't harassed in any way regarding july 20th and just went home for the rest of the war it is not only possible for him to become the head of nato its actually likely given his supurb grasp or mechanized and mass warfare
 
Nonsense. I can conjure up no image more awesome then a zombiefied Erwin Rommel leading NATO against the Warsaw Pact in an effort to bring back to life his zombified generals.

A prefer the idea of a corpse being led around and sat in chairs for photo-ops as the General Staff refuse to countenance this absurd rumour that the Desert Fox is eight years deceased and the place is starting to smell pretty funky.
 

CalBear

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Without getting into Rommel's qualities as a commander, I would point out that he was not in the sort of health that you indicate. Besides his well know medical issues, he was also shot up by the RAF just a few days before the July 20 Plot failed.

It is also worth noting that Erhard Milch, who also had no taint of the Eastern Front on his record was convicted at Nuremberg for allowing the use of civilian forced labor and forced labor of PoW in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Rommel never fought against the Russians and his home was in Western Germany its safe to assume he would have been captured by the west if he lived. He was much younger than a lot of the field marshal's that were sent to Siberia and certainly in better shape to live through it. If Manstein who enforced the commisar order and blatently purgured himself at Nuremburg could become a special advisor to the Bundswer I don't see why Rommel couldn't stay in the military. The forced labor whilst it went on in his sector had very little to do with him since it was orchestrated by Speer and the folks in Berlin. He merely designed the defenses and the super baddies created the slave labor situation that built it. Rommel also refused a Hitler order to execute German nationals in the French foriegn legion that fought his men at Bir Hachim... he was by far one of the least evil of the German generals and yet one is most accomplished commanders.

If he lived and wasn't harassed in any way regarding july 20th and just went home for the rest of the war it is not only possible for him to become the head of nato its actually likely given his supurb grasp or mechanized and mass warfare
 
Without getting into Rommel's qualities as a commander, I would point out that he was not in the sort of health that you indicate. Besides his well know medical issues, he was also shot up by the RAF just a few days before the July 20 Plot failed.

It is also worth noting that Erhard Milch, who also had no taint of the Eastern Front on his record was convicted at Nuremberg for allowing the use of civilian forced labor and forced labor of PoW in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

And yet somehow Guderian and Manstein and even the eventual commander of NATO Speidel were all rehabilitated. Rommel's health issues in the desert stemmed from several factors:
1. He categorically refused to sleep for many days at a time. Sleep deprivation has terrible effects on your mental and physical health
2. He refused meals or didn't eat regularly which gave him terrible digestive problems
3. He was constantly under high stress with no relief, being compelled not only to manage his problems in the desert but dealing with the interferance and incompetance of his own and the Italian high command. To survive two years of that level of stress and constant testing is unheard of... even Montgomery got nowhere near the amount of ball busting and blatent disregard for his military strategy that Rommel did


Generally throughout his life he suffered from intenstinal and digestive problems but he was a fitness fanatic... with a year or two of peace quiet and rest there was no reason he couldn't cure himself of the things that ailed him
 

Markus

Banned
Without getting into Rommel's qualities as a commander, I would point out that he was not in the sort of health that you indicate. Besides his well know medical issues, he was also shot up by the RAF just a few days before the July 20 Plot failed.


Easy, the RAF pilot recently transfered from Bomber Commad and thus misses Rommel´s car. :D

And when the bomb plot fails Rommel orders Army Group B to lay down its arms, Berlin tries to countermand the orders but the front is already wiiiiide open and Rommel uses his (and later allied) means of communication to spread the message that any contimuation of resistance just increases German losses. He being the "Über-war-hero" is listened to and the Wehrmacht falls apart in the west. The war ends before 1944 is over, Rommel becomes a hero both to the allied soldiers and to the Germans.

Still, the USA is the most powerful member of NATO so the top military post would go to an American.
 
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CalBear

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There has NEVER been a German SACEUR. For that matter there has never a non American SACEUR. Under the current NATO structure the top slot will ALWAYS be a four star American Officer.

The first German Deputy SACEUR was General Gerd Schmueckle who was appointed in 1978. Until then the Deputy SACEUR was ALWAYS from the UK. There have only been a TOTAL of four German Army D-SACEUR (with 2 German Navy & one German Air Force) The only countries that have held the Deputy SACEUR slots are the UK and Germany.

And yet somehow Guderian and Manstein and even the eventual commander of NATO Speidel were all rehabilitated.


...
 
If any has read the books Fox on the Rhine, and Fox at the Front I think that may cause an idea of Rommel becoming head of NATO command.
 

nbcman

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From Wikipedia:

He (Hans Speidel) was subsequently appointed Commander-in-Chief of the Allied NATO ground forces in Central Europe in April 1957, a command that he held until retirement in September 1963.

So if the OP was considering switching places between Rommel and Speidel, the position that they would hold is CINC Allied ground forces in Central Europe, not SACEUR.
 
From Wikipedia:

He (Hans Speidel) was subsequently appointed Commander-in-Chief of the Allied NATO ground forces in Central Europe in April 1957, a command that he held until retirement in September 1963.

So if the OP was considering switching places between Rommel and Speidel, the position that they would hold is CINC Allied ground forces in Central Europe, not SACEUR.

That is what I thought we were looking for... otherwise its a zero starter the Americans would always call the shots no exceptions
 
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