Challenge: Pro-West Indonesia VS Anti-West Australia

Why, you ask ?;) ....ssst, don't tell anyone, but that would be the only condition that would've allowed us to have been even bothered to occupy Darwin ! :eek:

With PoD no earlier than 1950 (the beginning of Indonesian Liberal Parliamentary Period, IOTL ended in 1959), make a scenario of antagonistic relations between Indonesia and Australia, in which in this matter Indonesia is being supported by the West. Based on this, physical conflict between the two countries ITTL should've happened at least once before 1990.
 
whats the matter ridwan, the pro-australia lobby after you again?:p

ok, lets see here. the first problem i can see here is making australia not supported by the west. now this will be kinda difficult with you POD (if you set it back about 25 years more i could have done a communist revolution in australia during the depresion;)) bbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttt their is a possibility. in the form of the white australia policy. maybe a south africa apathid style government (and subsiquent embago) would work to make the west less likely to back australia (i say less likley, as the west still supported southy africa, if only to fight the communists, which ill presume wont be happening here). ill have to leave someone with an indepth history of austalian politics (mine limited to our military successess:D) to figure out how it would come about, as i have no clue.

as for your side of the air sea gap, i imagine to be supported by the west, you just have to support more western forighn policy. sending troops to vietnam might help (setting yourself up as an ally of the US).

as for the war itself? maybe the oil under timor sea gap would be a good flashpoint (especially for an australia under an embargo).

ps. im willing to let you have darwin, but only if you agree to let East Timor become an australian client state (ie puppet):D
 
An anti-West Australia is difficult, mainly because Australia was so closely tied to the UK around the POD (I mean, the Prime Minister was Menzies).

The White Australia Policy Australian apartheid thing is difficult again because the thing had already started to gradually crumble: Australia had already started taking in refugees and such from all over Europe (including my grandparents & great-grandparents). True, it wasn't completely officially gone until 1973 but the White Australia Policy actually started disappearing in stages soon after WW2.

Maybe if the POD was earlier it might be easier.
 
1) whats the matter ridwan, the pro-australia lobby after you again?:p

2) ok, lets see here. the first problem i can see here is making australia not supported by the west. now this will be kinda difficult with you POD (if you set it back about 25 years more i could have done a communist revolution in australia during the depresion;)) bbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttt their is a possibility. in the form of the white australia policy. maybe a south africa apathid style government (and subsiquent embago) would work to make the west less likely to back australia (i say less likley, as the west still supported southy africa, if only to fight the communists, which ill presume wont be happening here). ill have to leave someone with an indepth history of austalian politics (mine limited to our military successess:D) to figure out how it would come about, as i have no clue.

3) as for your side of the air sea gap, i imagine to be supported by the west, you just have to support more western forighn policy. sending troops to vietnam might help (setting yourself up as an ally of the US).

4) ps. im willing to let you have darwin, but only if you agree to let East Timor become an australian client state (ie puppet):D

1) Your assumption misfired.... :p Seriously, why should you respond my challenge as if I'm looking for trouble ???

2) So Ben Chiefly wasn't able to turn Australia commie ?

3) That wouldn't to hard actually, if only the leaders weren't lacking vision to reform the economy. Or if the Parliamentary system turned out better or something bad happened to PKI. Or US to become less Euro-centric when dealing with Indonesia.
As for plans to send troops to Vietnam, there was actually one. During the 70s some generals did suggest it. But Suharto prefered to listen Adam Malik more, to let the ASEAN staying as an economic and regional bloc only.

4) What ? :confused:
 
An anti-West Australia is difficult, mainly because Australia was so closely tied to the UK around the POD (I mean, the Prime Minister was Menzies).

The White Australia Policy Australian apartheid thing is difficult again because the thing had already started to gradually crumble: Australia had already started taking in refugees and such from all over Europe (including my grandparents & great-grandparents). True, it wasn't completely officially gone until 1973 but the White Australia Policy actually started disappearing in stages soon after WW2.

Maybe if the POD was earlier it might be easier.

All right. I'll change the earliest year for the challenge into 1928
 
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Here's an idea. Have Australia hold onto the territory it liberated from the Japanese during WWII. So we're talking western New Guinea, half of Kalimantan, & a dozen or so other places (Ambon, Timor, etc). Not only will this piss off the Dutch & the British, & probably the Americans as well, thus isolating Australia from the West, but the Indonesians won't be too happy either after the Dutch leave yet the Australians don't.

And an historical note - it was Curtin's plan for Australia to carve out a post-war "region" in the South-East Asia & Pacific region.
 
Here's an idea. Have Australia hold onto the territory it liberated from the Japanese during WWII. So we're talking western New Guinea, half of Kalimantan, & a dozen or so other places (Ambon, Timor, etc). Not only will this piss off the Dutch & the British, & probably the Americans as well, thus isolating Australia from the West, but the Indonesians won't be too happy either after the Dutch leave yet the Australians don't.

And an historical note - it was Curtin's plan for Australia to carve out a post-war "region" in the South-East Asia & Pacific region.

Now if this happened I don't think we would've been able to talk about IRW in the same vibe we're familiar with. This would've even resulted in a different course IRW would've taken, actually....

Though now, if Australians would've stayed I don't think that would do any bad for the Dutch, unless you mean that IRW would going to be a tri-partite battle royale...... :eek:
 
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